Human Resources Committee on May 10th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have a feeling that nothing will really be easy today, but—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Okay. I'll do a subamendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Do you want to talk to Ms. Dhalla, just quickly?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

No. I'll do it separately; it will be cleaner then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Is there any other discussion?

Ms. Yelich, followed by Mr. Lake.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I don't think we can take it upon ourselves to vote on something that takes constitutional lawyers and lawyers who deal specifically with aboriginal issues. We don't know what we're voting for then. I don't know what we're voting for. The chair has ruled it out of order, so we have agreed to sustain the chair's position.

We definitely believe that the aboriginal people should be included if this is what the aboriginal people have asked for. We understand they haven't asked for that; we don't know. Perhaps we have to have them back. Maybe we have to have the Kelowna accord—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Yelich, I think it's clear. I've ruled this out of order, so I'm sure it will be addressed in the House.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I don't think we can vote on this without having some guidance on what we're voting for. How can we vote against amendments or for amendments when we don't know what we're voting for? We need legal counsel. We've been told by experts from the department that they can't guide us, so how can we? This isn't small stuff we're doing; we're dealing with people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to reiterate what my colleague was saying. This is not the way to legislate. We're going back to the same opposition gong show that we had with Bill C-257. Again, we're dealing with an ad hoc piece of legislation. I cannot believe that the NDP is making 12 amendments to their own bill. That's astounding to me. We're down to 55 minutes to try to go through this all and we're still on the first amendment.

Do we have a copy of the amendments yet? Have we been provided with a copy of Ms. Chow's amendments?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're not on Ms. Chow's amendment right now.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay, but for us to prepare properly, we should have that now. We look at things as we go. We shouldn't be presented with it when her first amendment comes up. We need to have it now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

As I've stated before, it is helpful— We have cut-off dates for amendments. You are a committee that will choose your destiny, and your destiny today will probably be not to finish this bill this afternoon. We'll have to move forward.

We ask people to table amendments, but once again, anyone can table the amendments they want. Right now we're working on Ms. Dhalla's amendment.

Are there any other comments on Ms. Dhalla's amendment?

Ms. Chow, followed by Mr. Lessard.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

To make it clear, I will move the subamendment. Apparently it's faster.

I'm adding the words “band government” after Ms. Dhalla's amendment. Ms. Dhalla's amendment is “First Nations”, and I am adding two words, “band government”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'm sorry, is it “First Nations” “and government”?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

It's “band government”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

The discussion is on the subamendment. It reads:

“aboriginal peoples' organization” means an organization of First Nations band government, Inuit or Métis people.

Mr. Lake, followed by Ms. Yelich.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have a question, and I want to go a bit outside the box on it. I want to ask Mr. Merasty, because he would know more about the proper wording here. I want to clarify the wording. I think it reads “aboriginal peoples' organization” and then it defines it: “means an organization of First Nations band government, Inuit or Métis people.”

Is that what we're talking about, Chair? Is that the wording?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That is correct.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Do you think that is the appropriate wording?

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

When it comes to the first nations band government, I would say yes. The Inuit and the Métis work closely with the provincial or territorial governments and they are the receiving entity for the funding, but the first nation bands are usually the receiving entity for the funding. That's why it's “band governments”; there should be an s there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Should they all be lumped together in one definition?

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

No. They're not the same.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay. So just to clarify, we probably should amend the amendment to the amendment?