Human Resources Committee on May 15th, 2007

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The forecast for the Canada learning bond is $25 million, and it's $540 million for the Canada education savings grant.

I'll tell you that I've talked to the officials about this in the past, and the concern that we have is that there's not as big a take-up on this as we would like. One of the things we've talked about is finding ways to attract more attention to these programs, Mr. Chairman, because we do see these programs as ways that people can provide for their children and for university down the road, post-secondary education. But there are no cuts. This is a problem with the take-up rate, and we're concerned about it, just as concerned as the member is.

With respect to Canada summer jobs, I just want to point out that I'm not suggesting that there's mal-intent on behalf of all members of Parliament with regard to these things. But I want to point out that, for instance, in one province last year there were 880 jobs handed out, jobs that had a grant for three weeks, many of them to fast food outlets, which we understand sometimes provide some important learning opportunities for people, but I don't think we're making the best use of this program. This program is designed to help students get the best possible experience they can get. So we're orienting more of this to applicants who have made it clear in their application that they will give students a quality work experience that they'll parlay into success in their career.

I appreciate again your concern with respect to how I've characterized this, but I think we have failed students sadly for many years because of how this program was designed. Now, I appreciate you'll get many questions on it, but the people who aren't questioning it are students who are getting tremendous work experience through the new program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. That's all the time we have. I hope the minister doesn't have any problem with fast food restaurants. I'm very concerned about that.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

No. I should apologize to anyone, Mr. Chairman, who's involved in that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We want to thank Mr. Martin on that.

We're going to now move to the final questioner of the second round. Five minutes, Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I'll start by saying that after listening to the earlier exchange between Ms. Lavallée and Minister Blackburn, I want to take a moment to recognize the considerable skills of our interpreter in keeping up, because that was a pretty fast-paced conversation and it was pretty amazing to actually hear the interpretation.

Minister Solberg, I just want to talk a little bit. As you know, I have an 11-year-old son with autism, Jaden, and like all parents, one of the things that my wife and I think a lot about is our kids' future. Obviously with Jaden there are many additional things on our mind, both hopes that we have for him and some challenges that we face. I think one of the challenges that concerns parents of kids with all forms of disability is how will they do as an adult when they are older and when we are older and maybe no longer able to care for them. I'm very encouraged with many of the steps actually in the budget to do with helping families dealing with disabilities. In particular, I want to just ask if you could give a little bit more information regarding the registered disability savings plan.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for that.

I'm encouraged by this program as well. I think it recognizes that many parents are concerned for the well-being of their children. As parents age, they want to know there's a way to provide for them. The disability savings plan is designed to not only allow parents to contribute, but other family members or loved ones as well, so that as parents age they know their child will be looked after. We've received a tremendous amount of good comment regarding this.

The plan is to put $140 million into this over the next two years. I don't know that there's any limit on the amount of money that can be put into the program on behalf of parents. Again, I think it recognizes not just parents, but all those who want to contribute. We want to make sure that they ultimately have the means to be looked after. It recognizes the compassion we all have, as a society, for people who are disabled.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to give you an opportunity to comment on the working income tax benefit. I know that Mr. Martin was asking you a few questions and you had started to make some comments about it. What I'd like to hear is how this is going to help low-income Canadians and their families. I know there are a great many people who are going to be helped by this initiative.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

This is a longstanding problem in Canada. We have a lot of different programs that are meant to address poverty in this country, but as people's incomes rise these programs are clawed back. There gets to be a point in a person's income where you're seeing a clawback of up to 80¢ on the dollar for people who are working and trying to improve their lives. This is obviously something that really does affect a person's behaviour. We know that incentives matter in economics. The working income tax benefit is designed to lower that effective clawback, the high tax margin for people earning as little as $30,000.

Minister Flaherty put this in place, along with another element that will help the disabled community. Again, we want to make sure that we take advantage of the extraordinarily hot labour markets and help disabled Canadians get into the workforce in much bigger numbers. They have very high levels of unemployment, but they have great potential and skills. We need to make sure they are rewarded and that their benefits aren't all clawed back, making it unattractive for them to stay attached in the workforce.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have one quick question for Minister Blackburn.

In your opening statement you touched a bit on the Non-smokers’ Health Act and some steps that you took today. That's the first I've heard about it. Could you comment on specifically what that means?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Your government's decision regarding this matter was announced in public a few hours ago. As the Minister of Labour, I am in charge of health and safety at work. There is also legislation regarding the health of non-smokers.

Over the years, our department has worked to ensure that there be no second-hand smoke, to protect non-smokers in federal buildings equipped with smoking rooms. A few months ago, I became interested in the presence of second-hand smoke outside the smoking rooms. Some people told me that it was present.

To begin with, we checked 11 smoking rooms at random. Only one of them did not have adequate ventilation, and it was closed down. There was no second-hand smoke outside the 10 remaining smoking rooms. However, we wanted to go further. We checked 12 more smoking rooms and the results were the same, there was no second-hand smoke outside. Therefore, our Non-smokers' Health Act was adequate and companies were enforcing it properly.

I went even further to find out what happens in smoking rooms before people go to work in the morning and when they are full of employees who smoke during their break. I wanted to find out about the air quality. This led to very surprising results.

In the morning, before the employees went into the smoking room, there were 27 times more fine particles than in the adjoining room. When people went to smoke during their breaks, there was 245 times more fine particles in the smoking room than in the room next to it. Thus, to follow a good principle, we protected non-smokers by putting the smokers in one room, without any regard to what happened in there.

Let met give you an idea of what 245 times more fine particles represent. The air in that smoking room is six times worse than the air on the worst day of smog or pollution in Montreal or Toronto in the summer time. At that point, we had to make a decision, and we thought that the best thing to do was to change our regulations and close down the smoking rooms.

We are asking employers not to wait for the regulations to change, because it will take a few months. Because of the high particle rates that we discovered, they can go ahead right away.

The statistics showed that we had to intervene. The fine particles of second-hand smoke contain 4,000 chemical products, 50 of which are carcinogenic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Blackburn.

We're now going to move to our third and final round. We have the Liberals for five minutes and the Conservatives for five minutes.

Ms. Dhalla and Mr. Savage are going to share their time. I think they're going to switch it around this time.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Yes, I'll go first, but please stop me at two minutes. I don't want to intrude.

Minister Solberg, last year the government announced a $55 million cut to the summer career placement program. We saw an $11 million cut this year. Are you now saying the $55 million cut has been reversed?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I'm saying that the $55 million cut never took place. I guess the budget is $85.9 million. The budget last year was $97 million. The only thing that changed was the support for the private sector and public sector, which was a very small amount.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Yes, we got all that. This is a change in government policy from the cuts that were announced in the fall.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

As a new minister, I thought I had some latitude to make those changes.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay. You correctly told us this program is first and foremost for students. You have also correctly told us that every year not-for-profit applications for students exceeded the number of students.

My question is this. If you cut $11 million out of large corporations, why wouldn't you reallocate it to the students who need the jobs and the not-for-profits who are out there applying for them?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, I guess you could have asked that of your own government when you were in power.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We didn't cut the program.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I think the key here is that we have the hottest labour markets today that we've had in 40 years.

It's funny. I was looking through some of the numbers. I noticed they have an unemployment rate of 3.9% in Fredericton, which rivals Alberta.

There are many more opportunities today for students than there have been in many years. I think we should all celebrate.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We all celebrate the good work of the Liberal government that brought that about. But there are still students who need jobs. Do you not think that's the case? Do you think there are enough students to fill those jobs?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Actually, in some areas there are spots where students need jobs, which is why we changed the program so more funding can go to the areas of highest need.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I would suggest that the students who need the jobs aren't going to get them.

In response to my question about the Autism Society of Nova Scotia, you referenced a Moncton group. I'm not sure if you're aware that Moncton and Dartmouth are in different provinces.

Since you mentioned New Brunswick, my colleague Paul Zed put out a press release, because he's been hearing the same thing I have. In his community, the YM-YWCA was denied funding, as were the Boys and Girls Club of Saint John, Saint John Arts Centre, the Canadian Cancer Society, the teen resource centre, and Turnbull Nursing Home.

All across the country, MPs and Service Canada are hearing from people who are asking why, in a time of plenty, in a time of massive surpluses, you would cut jobs to students. I think it's a good question. I think it's a disgrace.

I will now give my time to Ruby Dhalla.

How did I do?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You're at 2:20, so you've left Ms. Dhalla—

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to answer that.

I think—

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Sorry, we have two and a half minutes left.