Evidence of meeting #74 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Order, please.

Pursuant to Standing Orders 81(4) and 81(7), the committee will now commence its study on the main estimates for human resources and skills development, as well as its study on the report on plans and priorities of Human Resources and Social Development Canada for the fiscal year 2007-2008.

Just before we start, though, in the name of the committee I'd like to welcome, somewhere in the back of the room there, a delegation from the Pakistani Parliament. They will be in Ottawa during the week of May 14 especially to learn more about the work of the House of Commons and the committees. I just want to welcome our friends from the Pakistani Parliament.

3:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

I'm hoping that all my colleagues will behave themselves today, even though we are being televised, which I know everyone's aware of.

I will now call vote 1 in order to begin a review of the main estimates. We have the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development with us, as well as the Minister of Labour.

Gentlemen, I want to welcome you and thank you for being here today and taking the time out of your busy schedules.

You will make some statements, and that will be followed by a question and answer session from the members.

I know that some of my Liberal colleagues were suggesting that we could go right to questions because they had the report already, but I thought we would still give you a chance to go ahead with your statement.

May 15th, 2007 / 3:35 p.m.

Medicine Hat Alberta

Conservative

Monte Solberg ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Social Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I should start by introducing my colleagues at the table. Of course Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Minister of Labour, is with me; his deputy minister, Munir Sheikh, is here, as is my deputy minister, Janice Charette. Next to Janice is Hélène Gosselin, associate deputy minister responsible for Service Canada; next to Hélène is Karen Kinsley, who is the president of CMHC; and next to Karen is Sherry Harrison, who is the comptroller for the department.

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to appear before this committee to talk about the 2007-2998 main estimates and the report on plans and priorities of my department.

I am accompanied by my esteemed colleague, the Minister of Labour, the Honourable Jean-Pierre Blackburn, who will talk about the activities and plans of the Labour Program within Human Resources and Social Development Canada.

Of the $84 billion in planned expenditures for my department, nearly 93% will be in direct benefits. They range from child care, student support, and skills development to employment insurance, the Canada Pension Plan, and old age security.

The HRSDC main estimates exclude employment insurance—$16 billion—and the Canada Pension Plan—$28 billion—for benefits and administrative costs funded from those two accounts.

The 2007-2008 main estimates total $40.5 billion, a net increase of $5.1 billion over the 2006-2007 main estimates of $35.4 billion. The increase is primarily due to new funding for the universal child care benefits, the lump-sum payments recognizing the impact of Indian residential schools, and increases for statutory programs, which include old age security, guaranteed income supplements, and allowance payments.

Mr. Chair, I have recently had the opportunity to cross the country and see firsthand how our department touches the lives of Canadians and helps them fulfill their potential. Service Canada is central to my department and to the broader government, touching the lives of millions of Canadians. Service Canada is about improving service to Canadians. I'm proud to say that Service Canada provides access to more than 50 Government of Canada programs and services over the Internet, in person, or by telephone.

I'm also proud of our expansion into rural and remote areas. Over last year, our government added 170 points of service. Residents of Fort Resolution on the shores of Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territories, for example, recently got help accessing programs and services, thanks to several Service Canada employees who made a 320-kilometre round trip from the local service centre in Hay River, rather than waiting for the residents to come to them.

Residents of the communities of Grise Fiord and Resolute and Nunavut also recently had a chance to find out about our programs through two trade fairs organized by Service Canada employees and the Baffin Chamber of Commerce. Some Canadians are now receiving their first direct contact with the federal government. Citizen service agents are providing scheduled outreach visits to several communities along the James Bay coast in northern Ontario that are only accessible by plane. Plans are also under way to begin offering services in Cree.

Many more Canadians are getting the services and benefits they need. Providing Canadians with excellent services is no longer just a goal, but a concrete reality.

Let me now outline for you some of our government's actions to support Canadians in their family life, at work, and in their communities. Mr. Chair, today is International Day of Families. Every day Canadian families face challenges balancing work and family responsibilities and making decisions on how to raise their children. That's why our government has now presented two budgets aimed at providing choice for Canadians. These measures are making a difference, Mr. Chair.

In fact, this year we will be providing nearly $5.6 billion—three times the previous government—in direct spending, tax measures, and transfers to support early learning and child care. Universal child care benefit provides $2.4 billion a year directly to families, and now with Budget 2007, we have committed $250 million per year to create new child care spaces through the Canada social transfer. This comes on top of the $850 million we already provide to the provinces and territories in support of early learning and child care programs. Budget 2007 announced further support for families with children, including a 25% non-refundable tax credit to support businesses in creating new child care spaces in the workplace.

I recently had the opportunity to attend the opening of an innovative employer-sponsored child care centre at the University of Waterloo in Ontario. The centre sets up contracts with employers to supply full- and part-time care for children up to 13 years old, as well as temporary child care when the need arises. I can see Canadians working together to create effect choices in child care. I'm very encouraged when parents tell me that they have more choices for their families as a result of our programs and policies.

We have continued to follow through on our commitment to families by recently proposing in the budget a child tax credit for up to $310 per child under the age of 18. More than three million Canadian families would see their tax burden reduced. We have also proposed a new measure, similar to the registered education savings plan, that will benefit families who have children with severe disabilities. I'm sure that every one of us knows someone who faces the daunting financial challenge of caring for a child with a disability. The registered disability savings plan is designed to help ease that financial burden.

We have also done a great deal on behalf of seniors.

At the beginning of this year, the Prime Minister appointed the Honourable Marjory LeBreton as Secretary of State for seniors. In March, we announced the creation of a National Seniors Council to advise the government on issues of national importance. Budget 2007 had an increase in the age credit amount and pension income splitting. The recent passage of Bill C-36 will make it easier for seniors to apply for and receive their benefits.

This government also believes that investing in post-secondary education today will help bridge the skills gap, so future generations can access learning and employment opportunities of the future. That's why Budget 2007 proposed to increase the lifetime contributions and the annual contribution limits of registered education savings plans, as well as increase the Canada education savings grant. In addition, Budget 2007 proposed the biggest investment in post-secondary education since the inception of the Canada social transfer, an increase of more than 40% in transfers to provinces and territories in this area.

We are also delivering policies and programs that help bridge the gap in the labour market between employers who need workers and Canadians who need jobs. The budget establishes a new architecture for labour market policy, the centerpiece of which is a $500 million a year contribution in new funding for the provinces to help get training for those who are not eligible to receive EI. Our goal is to create the skilled, adaptable workforce Canada needs. In the final analysis, this translates into opportunities for individual workers to create Canada's knowledge advantage.

We live in a very special time in the history of the Canadian economy and its labour force. The challenge used to be people seeking jobs. Now we have jobs seeking people, especially when it comes to skilled workers.

Last January, for example, our government launched the apprenticeship incentive grant. Up to 100,000 apprentices will be eligible for grants to help cover the cost of tuition, travel, and tools. I was recently in Edmonton, Mr. Chairman, where I had the opportunity to present the first $1,000 cheque under the apprenticeship incentive grant at a steel fabricating plant, Wayward Steel. The smile on that young rig technician's face told me, Mr. Chairman, that we were absolutely on the right track with this new grant.

Our government is also producing programs that encourage employment for under-represented groups such as recent immigrants, persons with disabilities, and aboriginal Canadians.

Immigrants now account for a much larger proportion of Canada's population growth. We need the skills of these newcomers.

In the past year I announced enhancements to the temporary foreign worker program, including regional lists of occupations under pressure, and working groups in Alberta and B.C. that are designed to alleviate worker shortages.

In Calgary, last March, I announced funding for a program that will develop an online tool to help immigrants before coming to Canada upgrade their essential skills to meet the requirements of the Canadian workforce. We've also targeted other groups to help ensure that they can bring their skills to the workplace to help us bridge the gap.

When I was recently in Digby, Nova Scotia, I met a woman whose disability had made her feel that she was unemployable. With the help of the skills link program, she found a position with a retail chain. She was pretty thrilled about making a contribution to her community and the positive impact that the job would have on her life. Mr. Chairman, she told a very touching story at that time, and I couldn't help but feel a personal sense of pride in the skills link program that was helping her.

Mr. Chairman, there are many more stories like this one.

For example, when I visited a youth project in north Regina, I met a young aboriginal man who had experienced some pretty tough times. Participating in a youth program had motivated him to work towards creating his own business of renovating houses and flipping property.

We've also reached out to support aboriginal people. I'm very pleased that our recent budget proposed to double the investment under the aboriginal skills and employment partnership program. We propose to add another $105 million to this program, and I'm sure we'll see more success stories like these in years to come.

Last year the government invested some $175.5 million to support over 1,140 homelessness-related projects. We also committed $269.6 million over the next two years on a new homelessness partnering strategy. This strategy will work to find more effective and sustainable solutions to prevent and reduce homelessness, and improve the quality of life for Canada's most vulnerable citizens.

We also recently announced a two-year extension of CMHC's renovation programs, worth $256 million, to help bring housing for low-income households up to basic health and safety standards.

CMHC is spending $1 billion per year to create affordable housing through bilateral affordable housing agreements with the provinces and territories. It also spends about $1.8 billion to support some 633,000 existing social housing units across Canada.

The 2006 federal budget also provided $1.4 billion for affordable housing, northern housing, and housing for aboriginal people living off reserve. Along with my colleague, Minister Prentice, I recently announced the creation of a $300 million first nations market housing fund. This fund follows through on the 2007 budget commitment to develop a housing market in first nations across this country. It also represents a fundamental shift in how Canada's new government supports housing on reserve. Up to 25,000 new housing units over 10 years could be provided through this fund.

Mr. Chairman, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the contributions made by the individual employees of my department.

Through their hard work and dedication, we are making an impact on the lives of Canadians.

Mr. Chair, this committee will note that in the report on plans and priorities, we have made a commitment to Canadians, to our own employees, and to taxpayers. We will use their money wisely to achieve results and value for money.

When I travel the country and see a human face on the results that we achieve, I know we are on the right track. We are reaching people; we are helping them fulfill their potential.

I would be pleased to welcome the committee's questions.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Minister Solberg.

It sounds to me as if you've been very busy and doing lots of good work.

I'm sure all the members will want to find out more about it as we get to questions—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

I'm sure they do.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

—after Mr. Blackburn goes.

Minister Blackburn, welcome. You have some opening remarks first, and then we will get to questions.

3:45 p.m.

Jonquière—Alma Québec

Conservative

Jean-Pierre Blackburn ConservativeMinister of Labour

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

This is the third time I have had the honour of coming before you. Today I will also have the opportunity to update you on the changes and progress that have taken place since our last meeting.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I would like to recall the fact that Canada's workplace is where our nation's wealth is generated. It's where most citizens spend a considerable part of their lives. It is also where creativity and innovation take root. The quality of a workplace is therefore fundamental to the economic and social quality of life of citizens. So it is crucial that we focus on the quality of that workplace. Here's how we do that.

First, as members know, one of the main sectors of activity of the Labour Program is labour-management relations. We provide assistance for dispute resolutions. This assistance includes mediation and conciliation services in settling collective bargaining and other industrial disputes. Second, we must ensure we have the right laws, regulations and rules governing the workplace—developed to be flexible to the meet the needs of a changing world. Third, we achieve our objective through compliance and enforcement of these laws, regulations and rules.

The role of our conciliation and mediation services in successfully assisting unions and employers in resolving their collective bargaining disputes is clear: 97% of all Canada Labour Code collective bargaining disputes finalized in 2006-2007 were settled without a work stoppage.

The context for modern laws, regulations and rules is that the nature of the Canadian workplace is changing. For many workers in western industrialized countries, this is a world that has been absolutely transformed in roughly the span of a single generation. Consider this: the percentage of women in the workforce increased from 42% in 1976 to 58% in 2004. Immigrants represent 70% of current population growth—up from 20% in 1976. Self-employment, autonomous workers, telework, casual employment and job sharing have all risen dramatically. The laws that govern our workplace have to keep pace with all of this change. Through modest steps, we are meeting this challenge.

The report entitled Fairness at Work: Federal Labour Standards for the 21st Century, prepared for the Government of Canada, makes a series of legislative and administrative recommendations on how to modernize key sections of the Canada Labour Code—fundamental legislation governing federal work standards and workplace conditions. This government continues to seek the views of business and the labour before we decide on a course of action.

Another component of our approach to modern legislation is the Employment Equity Act. In December last year, I was pleased to be informed that this standing committee will be undertaking the five-year review of this act. As mandated by law, this will be the third such review to be carried out since the passage of the act in 1986, when I myself was a member in the House of Commons. Your direction is required. Our government looks forward to working with you in this endeavour.

And here's another example of modern legislation: second-hand smoke in the workplace. I announced today that the government's decisions to amend the Non-Smokers Health Act to ban smoking rooms in federally-regulated workplace. Upon assuming the Office of the Minister of Labour, I asked the department to conduct testing of the quality of air outside smoking rooms in federally-regulated workplaces. I found to the government's satisfaction that there was no leakage of second-hand smoke. I took things a step further and asked the department to test air quality inside the smoking rooms, before people came to work, that is before they went in to the smoking rooms in the morning, when they were on break and a little later during the day.

These tests showed that the air quality inside smoking rooms was very poor—to say the least—even when they were not in use and deteriorated to dangerous levels as smoking increased in the room.

Mr. Chairman, amending regulations to ban smoking rooms will take time but I strongly encourage employers to close their smoking rooms as soon as possible and not wait for the new regulations to take effect. Perhaps you will have questions to ask me about this. If it is your wish, I can expand on this later.

The Wager Protection Program Act is another example of modern legislation. This important new program aims to protect workers who are the most vulnerable in a bankruptcy. The government will provide for the payment of unpaid wages and vacation pay of up to an amount equalling four weeks' maximum insurable earnings under the Employment Insurance Act, or approximately $3,000, to employees whose employers go bankrupt.

This government is moving forward on technical amendments to the legislation and is keen to have Parliament approve these amendments. So I urge the members of your political parties to move forward in reaching consensus on these amendments. We all know how important this legislation is for working Canadians, and we are ready to move ahead on its passage. As soon as there is a consensus, we will be able to move ahead quickly, in order to give the bill three readings and to refer it to the Senate for further consideration.

Allow me to give you one more example of the kind of new rules we need. New directives have been developed to deal with "refusal to work" situations which provide clarity and consistency in Labour Program decisions. Refusal to work is an essential right of federal workers when facing work situations that could be considered dangerous. The directives follow a three-step process.

First, parties should determine the normal conditions of employment. Second, inspectors should determine if there are deviations from that norm. And third, if there are deviations, inspectors should then determine if it constitutes a danger, thereby justifying the refusal to work. Additional initiatives based on modernized regulations are being developed and include new violence prevention measures and ergonomic regulations.

Before turning to our approach to modern enforcement, let me mention the importance of the need for consensus among workplace parties on new legislation. Even a carefully-crafted law or regulation can prove counterproductive if it is seen as one-sided. Good laws are therefore effective when they are backed up by effective enforcement. But it has also been shown that the most effective approach is to undertake the combination of activities aimed at gaining employers' compliance voluntarily before using the enforcement provisions of a law.

International responsibility, labour management collaboration, and self-regulation are the best tools we have in the modern workplace for achieving compliance with legal obligations. In this context, the role of government increasingly shifts away from blanket coverage by inspectors, and towards education, dissemination of best practices, dispute resolutions, audits, and inspection activities that are more actively targeted to high-risk workplaces and industries.

An example of our approach to modernization is the new Racism Workplace Strategy. One of the most effective ways to gain compliance of employers with legislation is to provide them with the information and the assistance they need to implement certain legislative requirements. For example, employers subject to the Employment Equity Act tell us they are having difficulties achieving the goal of equitable representation of visible minorities and aboriginal people, when members of those two groups experience racial conflicts in the workplace.

That is why we have introduced the strategy to provide information and assistance to employers in removing barriers and in recruiting and retaining members of those two groups in their workforce. I personally have been traveling across the country, meeting employers and employees and I saw the progress first-hand and encouraged continuing efforts to address the issue of racism in the workplace.

Recently we acted on federal pay equity. The government decided to improve compliance with existing requirements for pay equity. Rather than spending a lot of time discussing and attempting to reach consensus on new legislation, we believe that what is most needed is an effective strategy to ensure that employers are fulfilling their obligations.

My approach therefore is to provide information and education for employers, to offer assistance and facilitation for employers who need help, and to carry out the follow-up and monitoring of compliance. As a last resort, enforcement activity will be undertaken by the Canadian Human Rights Commission and tribunal.

Most employers under federal jurisdiction readily comply with their obligations under the Canada Labour Code to pay appropriate wages and overtime rates as required. However, sometimes this is not the case and employees file a complaint with Labour Program officials claiming that there are wages owing to them.

For example, in 2006-2007, the Labour Program assisted nearly 2,000 Canadians to recover their entitlements. In 2007, after investigation, it was determined that there was a total of $3.7 million in unpaid wages owed to employees. Once these employers were informed of their obligations, they voluntarily paid nearly $2 million of those unpaid wages. Where employers did not voluntarily comply, labour inspectors used the enforcement provisions in the Code and recovered almost $800,000 of the remaining unpaid wages for Canadian workers.

In the context of increased competition in the production of goods and services in a globalized economy, the effective enforcement of labour laws internationally is vital to ensuring Canada's competitive position. We are proud of what we've accomplished in Canada and we have an obligation to help out internationally. The Labour Program is providing technical assistance to partners in the Americas to help strengthen their administration of labour laws.

Our international commitment is reflected in Canada's ongoing active role in the International Labour Organization. And it is what guides our efforts under the international labour agreements we have concluded with Mexico and the United States, Chili and Costa Rica. We are currently working to finalize agreements with Korea and Singapore and we'll be pursuing similar agreements with other trading partners in the Americas.

I have highlighted for you Canada's efforts, through providing mediation and conciliation services, legislation and modern enforcement, in building a quality workplace.

We're working hard at getting it right because good labour laws mean safe and healthy work conditions and modern enforcement means fewer injuries at work and less absenteeism. Labour laws based on consensus mean fewer disputes and work stoppages. People can take pride in their workplace, be more creative and innovative.

All of this is done with a simple objective: enhancement of our quality of life in and outside of work, both on the social and economic fronts.

As always, I am pleased to work with the committee to meet the challenges of the dynamic, ever-changing workplace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Minister Blackburn.

I thought I was paying attention there. I thought you added some additional work for us about maybe looking at some additional legislation as well as reviewing the Employment Equity Act. I don't know if we want to thank you for that or not, as we move forward.

We're a pretty busy committee. We have about three pieces of private members' bills before us as well as a couple of studies and another study on disability, so I'm sure this committee will look forward to the additional work we're going to be partaking in over the next few months.

Thank you once again for being here.

We're going to try to get in three rounds today. We're going to start with the opposition Liberals. Ms. Dhalla and Mr. Savage are going to split their time. Mr. Savage has informed me that he wants to make sure that Ruby is only three and a half minutes, so I'll let her go that way and we'll go from there.

Ms. Dhalla, you have three and a half out of seven minutes.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

I hope the minister is going to cooperate and keep his answers short.

I want to begin by thanking both of the ministers for appearing before the committee along with their officials.

I want to get into questioning. As the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development, you spoke about the importance of putting a human face on stories. In my question I'm going to put a human face on perhaps a struggle and a challenge that so many Canadian families have come to me with.

I'm sure as a minister you are aware that about 75% of Canadian parents in this country have their children in some form of child care. In talking to many of these Canadian families, you mentioned that they were encouraged. I can tell you, from the picture I have seen and the words I have heard, that this is certainly not the case. They are upset, they are frustrated, and they feel like they have been left scrambling.

You may ask, why is that? They are upset and frustrated because of the fact that they were counting on Stephen Harper and the Conservatives to keep the promise to create 125,000 child care spaces. They were hoping that you would keep your promise to invest in early learning and child care. Instead, they feel that the Conservative government, and you as the minister who took over the portfolio, have really failed those Canadian families and kids. They were so upset that many of these organizations, and one of the largest child care advocacy organizations in the country, were compelled to issue a report card. I'm sure that Stephen Harper brought forward this report card, as would anyone who had received a report card, to the cabinet table to tell you of the outrage that Canadian parents and families feel.

Looking at the report card, I hope no child ever takes home a report like this. There was an F for universal child care; a D-minus on parent choice; an F on balancing work and family; and an F on honouring agreements, where it says that Stephen Harper doesn't play well with others.

On behalf of all of these Canadian families and parents who are so upset at the fact that the Conservative government broke its promise, I simply want to ask you....

Before I do, I'm going to read to you what was written in Hansard: “We also will be creating 125,000 new spaces at work, at home and in the community.”

Do you know when that was said, Minister? In 2006, on April 25. So it's been a year since this statement was made in the House. It's been 15 or 16 months since your Conservative government was elected. How many child care spaces has this Conservative government created?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you very much for that important question. This is an important issue.

I would start by saying that while I appreciate the passion you bring to this, I reject your characterization of our record on this.

The fact is that we have worked very closely with parents across this country—

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

How many spaces, Minister?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

I'll get to that.

When we came to power, one of the first commitments that we made was that we would introduce universal child care benefits, so that parents would have choice in child care. We did that within a few months of coming to office—

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

Minister, I don't want to cut you off, but the chair is going to cut me off.

How many spaces? Can you give me a number, please?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

You packed many accusations into your question, so I think it's important that I address—

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

They weren't accusations. I'm just telling you about a human face on a human story.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

We need to know how many spaces.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

So we did that.

Secondly, we worked with the provinces and talked to them about providing support for child care spaces. In the budget we announced $250 million of new funding on top of the $850 million that already exists. In the wake of those announcements, many provinces announced in their own provincial budgets that they would be creating spaces. I'll give you an example.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

We've run out of time, Minister, but I can tell by your answer that the answer is absolutely zero, because you haven't given me a number. You've given me some dollar figures, so 16 months later—

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Ontario affirmed that they will—

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

--parents have not received a single child care space.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

—go ahead with the creation of 15,000 spaces.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

You've actually cut spaces.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Saskatchewan said they would create 500 spaces. In their provincial budgets, many provinces built on the announcement that we made and committed to creating all kinds of child care spaces.