Human Resources Committee on June 11th, 2009

[Paul Thompson]

No, we are talking about the number of workers.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

You are referring to the population as a whole. Some people are not even in a position where they can take advantage of Employment Insurance. So, those are inaccurate statistics you are giving us.

[Paul Thompson]

No, they refer to workers.

the labour force, the percentage of the Canadian labour force that lives in these regions where these rules would apply.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Why don't you base your statistics on the number of people losing their jobs in Canada?

[Paul Thompson]

Because these people are the ones paying EI premiums. The clients are the people losing their jobs. The base is therefore made up of people who work and who run the risk of losing their jobs.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I consider your use of the term “Canadian workers” to be improper, because you are not including in that group people who are unable to contribute to the EI program. So, as I understand it, your statistics actually distort our understanding of the situation.

[Paul Thompson]

It is the percentage of—

Perhaps I could give you a technical explanation in English.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Yes, please do.

[Paul Thompson]

It's the percentage of the Canadian labour force, which includes the employed and the unemployed, who reside in EI regions across the country who have seen the rules change.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I think you should clearly state what your numbers are based on, because they give rise to all kinds of errors.

In Europe, statistics on the number of unemployed refer to people who are losing their jobs. But here, that is not what is referred to. You say that 85% of workers could receive employment insurance benefits. So, that distorts our understanding.

Now, I would like to come back to the 24 day timeframe, on average, to process claims. Are they 24 working days or calendar days?

[Paul Thompson]

I would like to ask my colleague, Liliane, to answer that question.

[Liliane Binette]

We are talking about 24 calendar days.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

So, about three and a half weeks. Could you explain to me why?

Nowadays, thanks to computers and the general development of access to information, people can be given credit in the space of a few minutes or a passport in three hours, and a travel agency can organize a trip to China in just a couple of hours. Why do you need 24 days?

If we take the example of a small town of 20,000 in my riding, near Magog, you would need 24 days to know whether an individual living there is entitled to EI benefits. Explain to me why.

[Liliane Binette]

Most of the examples you have given reflect situations where the documentation required to verify eligibility is provided in advance.

As regards employment insurance benefits, two documents are extremely important in order to verify benefit eligibility. First of all, there is the actual application made by the individual, and then there is the record of employment provided by the employer, which allows us to determine two important things. First, the accumulated number of hours worked, which determines the benefit period. We have to know the amount of money earned in wages in order to set the rate. The second piece of information is the reason for the separation. As you know, in situations that are complex and contentious, when an individual voluntarily quits his or her job, we have to determine whether the reason for the separation was valid.

Often people do not file their application the day that they lose their job. However, for us, calculation of the benefit period begins on the day they submit their application. Also, we must receive the record of employment from the employer in order to collate the data and pay the benefits. In addition to that, there is the two-week waiting period, during which no benefits are payable, because this is an insurance plan. So, because we pay the individual starting from the time we acknowledge that a person is eligible, because there is a two-week waiting period and because we ask the individual to report one week later, there are necessarily certain delays.

The number I gave you is a national average. Cases that are not contentious are obviously processed more quickly. However, in recent years, the national average has ranged from 23 to 25 days and, specifically, 23 days last year. This year, it is 24 days, month over month.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to turn it over to my colleague now.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to address a completely different topic: reforms affecting the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. As you know, the human resources sector is affected by Bill C-12, which proposed a program to assist workers who lose their jobs.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Raymonde Folco]

Excuse me, but I must interrupt. We have already gone beyond the seven minutes. You will have an opportunity later to ask your question.

Ms. Chow, please.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

How many workers who are unemployed, in your estimate, have to wait a substantial amount of time because of their pension and severance pay? Would you have a ballpark figure of that nature?

[Paul Thompson]

Is this as a result of the allocation of severance before you can receive the benefits?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That's right.

[Paul Thompson]

I don't have numbers at my fingertips, but one of the measures that are being introduced relates to this requirement. As I was indicating in my remarks, of any individuals who choose to invest a portion of their severance pay, a significant portion will be eligible to get onto EI benefits much earlier; they won't have to wait for the period of weeks over which their severance is allocated. Anybody who opts to make that investment is eligible to get onto EI immediately.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That's for the severance, but not for the pensions?

[Paul Thompson]

This is in relation to separation payments of any kind, including vacation and....

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

If I'm laid off and I have severance pay, normally I'd have to spend all of it before I could go into.... With this, may I invest 100% of it?

[Paul Thompson]

Are you required...?