Human Resources Committee on April 19th, 2010

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes. It would be to examine the existing supports provided by the federal level to parents who are looking to adopt children, as well as supports to offset some of the costs of raising children. Even the child tax credit provides support up until the age of 18, so even that has some bearing on adopting older children, for example. The committee may have an opinion as to whether it's sufficient or not sufficient, but it is a mechanism that goes beyond, say, the universal child care benefit, which is for children up to the age of six. It does take into account the reality of children over six.

So there are existing supports and I think it's worthwhile for the committee to look at those existing supports. Are they sufficient? Are there gaps? Should any be particularly augmented or not augmented? I would agree, Madam Chair, that this should form part of the study.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That's one aspect.

The other and perhaps more difficult aspect is the issue of international adoptions and creating a specific class with respect to the classes in immigration. From everything I've seen, adoption is being handled provincially, through each of the provinces, and they have, I suppose, differing rules and procedures. Essentially, they do have the fact that it must be in the best interests of the child or the children, and that's fair.

The federal government has been involved primarily post-adoption, after the province, with respect to citizenship. Its involvement has been particularly in that area, and sort of augmenting what the provinces do, what they're able to do, and I guess probably what constitutionally they have a right to do.

So if you're going to move from that provincial jurisdiction into creating a new adoption class, it would seem to me that there might be some constitutional issues we would have to study. Perhaps, depending on what the constitutional issues might be, any venture by the federal government into the adoption process might then require a form of collaboration or agreement with the various provinces, and therefore may not be something that can be done directly by legislation.

So that's a more problematic area, as I see it, but would you want us to study the constitutional possibilities, including the collaborative approach that might be taken with the provinces to achieve this unique class of adoption?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thanks to the member for the question.

Obviously there could be some real technical challenges. I'm not aware of all of them, nor am I aware of all the ones you mentioned specifically. The principle at play here is partnership, I think. Each level of government has a role to play with respect to adoption and fostering the necessary kinds of attachments. How do we respond to some of the humanitarian challenges as well?

I'm not necessarily suggesting that the federal government move into provincial areas. What I'm suggesting, certainly, and what I think the committee would be well within its right to suggest, is to first of all examine these studies. Don't be afraid of looking at some of the tough areas.

Ultimately, it would be fruitful to have either the relevant ministers or the first ministers have some discussion at some point about how we deliver adoption in Canada. What better way is there to respect the jurisdictions and yet foster the necessary partnership--if possible--around this topic than to have that happen at some point? I think it would also give some serious profile to adoption in Canada.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

One of the thoughts I had as you were speaking, notwithstanding that it's provincial in large measure, is that there obviously would be interprovincial mobility issues depending on where the child might be and where the parent might be. This may be another area that we might want to have a look at to see how it's working or not working, as between provinces.

When you answer that question, I'll pass this on to Mr. Cannan--if there is time.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, let me just add that in the understanding of working collaboratively or in partnership, there are also opportunities for best practices, a point that I think I very briefly touched on.

There's a lot to be learned from various jurisdictions about what they do, including what supports they provide. It could be instructive for the federal government to see how certain provinces—particularly Quebec, as mentioned earlier—support parents with respect to adoption and post-adoption.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for sharing your time, Mr. Komarnicki.

Thank you for coming here, Mr. Watson, and also for bringing your lovely bride with you, and for your passion for the issue.

All around the room we have stories of families, some of whom have not been able to have children and have tried to through in vitro fertilization, and others who haven't been successful there and have gone to adoption.

I have limited time. You mentioned the cost, which is something that has always boggled my mind. People always say that throwing more money at the problem is a solution. From your experience, what is the major delay and what is the reason for the high expense for processing adoptions? How can we work together to streamline, from the federal perspective, a more efficient process?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I'm not sure I have a comment on that, but obviously the cost range for adoption will vary by jurisdiction, and it will be even higher when we're talking about international adoption. I think it's relevant, in light of the question Mr. Komarnicki asked, that we're not starting from zero, either, which is why it's important to examine what supports are in place.

We have an adoption tax credit, which may have been initiated by a Conservative private member's bill, I think, at the time, but was instituted by a Liberal government. We've had additional measures that have come in since then. So governments have had a look. We're not starting at a zero position in terms of how we support the cost of adoption and for the supports that are provided to parents beyond that, but it is a costly venture.

[The Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, CPC)), Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

We'll go to our second round.

We'll begin with Mr. Savage, please.

[An hon. member]

We have about three minutes left.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I don't have a question.

Raymonde, do you have a question?

[Raymonde Folco]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Okay. We'll go to Mr. Cannan.

Did you have any—

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Sorry, but may I make a very quick comment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Sure.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't want to sound insensitive, but it seems to me that the only role the Government of Canada has here, given that this is provincial jurisdiction, is the immigration role, which is what we do now. We only act on immigration now once the province has already done the family study; when the family has been approved, then we do the immigration thing. I know, because I've gone through it recently in my riding, that we don't approve the immigration until the province has done its piece. So that stays about the same.

The only other thing would be the EI, if we wanted to look at expanding it, but I don't see any role here that would be required other than what already exists.

So I'm not clear about what we're being asked to do here. That's my major comment. Because I think we have it, really, except for the EI part, which I suppose we could discuss.

I'm sorry, I don't mean...[Inaudible--Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Mr. Watson?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I thought that was a comment, so I'll leave it for the record.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

All right. Are there more questions?

Mr. Vellacott, go ahead.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Watson, for being here. I much appreciate the heart and the passion that you bring to this. I think this is a huge thing that we can do in terms of our own country and as well from abroad.

A special class for adoption from abroad intrigues me a great deal. Tying in with Ms. Minna's remarks, what's your sense, from looking at and studying the situation overseas, of bringing about a refugee class for adoption, but also, as she rightly pointed out, of what we may call the ethical issue or component in terms of bringing children across? I know that there was a little bit of an incident that occurred in Haiti with some zealous people trying to help out these young children, and it was found later that there was some difficulty or reluctance or hesitancy on the part of the parents.

Are there issues like this that one needs to kind of look at as a prelude to this special adoption class for immigration?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

Yes. When we're looking at humanitarian situations, the primary consideration, of course, is not to run roughshod over any other country but to work in partnership with legitimate governments. The first priority has to be placing children from those countries with families in their own countries, but there may not be the capacity to do it. Beyond that, do we have a system that's nimble enough to allow us to then pair up families here in our country who are more than willing to adopt children from other countries and to give them the love, the attachment, and the affirmation they'd like to give them?

But the primary consideration has to be to place these children, where possible, with families in their own countries first. Beyond that, can we make that a reality here?

I don't know if that answers the question, Madam Chair.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I think I have about a half a minute to go, do I, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I guess the other question there, Mr. Watson, would be whether you see it as an issue of big concern. Maybe we're raising something that's more hypothetical, but are there issues in China and other places with couples dearly wanting children and maybe scooping in a little too quickly, too aggressively, and the agencies there? We have to check out those local situations, obviously, and governments that may have a fairly different view of life and children and so on.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Anytime you either enact law or put a system in place, there are those who will try to take advantage of the situation. Certainly I think those are worthy cautions to be looking at. I think it would be entirely in our nation's character to be more generous in terms of our capacity to open our arms to children both domestically and from abroad.