Human Resources Committee on Oct. 7th, 2010

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

It will be possibly up to $10 million with the provinces on board.

We've called, as some others have, for those savings to go into programs dedicated to victims of crime. Has the government earmarked those savings for victims of crime?

[Jacques Paquette]

No, and that's why I was explaining that this is a statutory program, so the way it is managed is very different from another program. So all I have, basically, is an authority to spend to meet the obligations according to that act. So any decision to--

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I understand the statutory obligation, but the government hasn't indicated that these savings will go to victims of crime.

[Jacques Paquette]

That would be up to the ministers to make that decision.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I want to just ask you a question about how the process actually works. Proposed section 9.2 of the bill says:

Payment of a pension that is suspended...shall resume in respect of the month in which a pensioner is released but only after they notify the Minister in writing of their release.

So is the process such that if somebody is incarcerated and is impacted by these changes, they will, I assume, automatically lose their pension, but when they come out, they would have to notify the minister in writing. Can you explain that to me?

[Jacques Paquette]

There are two things. The first one is that we will have the information-sharing agreements so we will have access to the information, but what is essential for the individual who comes out is to inform the minister. When we say the minister, it's basically through a Service Canada account, for example, to say that not only have they been released, but where they are, where the payment should be made, and so on, because what we want to be able to do is to re-establish the payments to the right person in time and at the right place, basically.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

But on the front end, it's automatic, I assume. If they're drawing a pension and they're incarcerated for over 90 days--

[Jacques Paquette]

That's right, because in that case when you stop the payment, you just stop the payment. When you re-install the payment, you have to know where the payment should be made.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

And when they come out and they go into a Service Canada office or send a letter saying this is now their address, how long will that take?

[Jacques Paquette]

That should be fairly quick. We're talking about weeks, nothing more than that, because they are already in the bank. What we have to do is to make sure that all the information on where the payment should be made and so on is up to date, and then the payment will be processed.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I understand that; I have no issue with that. I just want to understand exactly the process. How likely is it that some prisoners will get missed in this process, not when they come out, but having gone into prison? How foolproof a system do we have that this will stop the payments of prisoners who shouldn't be getting pensions?

[Jacques Paquette]

That's part of the work that we will have done upfront. The information will have to be given to the people so when we are suspending the payment, people will be informed of how it should be reinstalled and what would be the work they would have to do to make sure they will get their money the moment they are released.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Mr. Komarnicki, you have three minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I find it remarkable that all of a sudden there is interest in some of this money going to victims, when the issue is to get this bill passed so the victims aren't further victimized.

I have a quote here from Sharon Rosenfeldt, president of Victims of Violence and mother of an Olson victim. She said,

It’s great to see that this government is putting victims and taxpayers first ahead of criminals. The suspension of OAS benefit payments to inmates does just that.

David Toner, the president of Families Against Crime and Trauma, said:

We are thrilled that the prime minister and the minister have taken leadership and are putting victims ahead of the entitlements of prisoners. I commend the government for introducing this legislation.

And there's a quote by the Vancouver police chief.

It's just a fundamental kind of thing. Victims have a hard time seeing prisoners get savings accounts, while they have been victimized. It just adds to their injury. That seems to be a common sentiment of the public. If anything, they're urging for this bill to go forward quickly to remedy that injustice.

This bill addresses that, but as you indicated earlier, it makes sure that the spouses or partners of those imprisoned are not hard done by this. Is that correct?

[Jacques Paquette]

That is correct. There are some specific clauses in the bill to do that, and in some cases to even adjust upward the allocations under the GIS, for example, to the spouse.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It's not meant to punish spouses or partners; it's meant to sort of prevent prisoners from receiving additional funds when their basic needs are provided.

A question I had following from that is about those who are released from prison. I don't see where the legislation provides automatic notification to either the department or the minister of their release...without requiring the person released to do so. It seems to me that short-term inmates might not have as easy a facility or understanding about doing that, when the procedure might be easier handled from within. Have you given thought to that?

[Dominique La Salle, Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

The information-sharing agreement will stipulate that information has to be automatically provided to the department on who is freed from incarceration. Then the individual will notify us.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

Madame Beaudin.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, gentlemen.

Since I am from Quebec, I wanted to check if you have already started talks with the Government of Quebec with a view to coming to a reciprocity agreement on this bill.

[Jacques Paquette]

No, we have started nothing, first of all because the bill has not been passed, so it would be prejudging the decision of Parliament. But we have informed all provinces that the bill is being studied, that it mentions the need to have information exchange agreements, and that we will commit to discussions as soon as it is passed by Parliament.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Have you checked the position of the Department of Public Safety on this and have you had discussions with its representatives on the major issues that could arise, or are you unable to talk about it at all?

[Jacques Paquette]

No, not yet.

Normally, information exchange agreements should be relatively simple. In a way, we are talking about two parameters: a person's identity and the age of 65. We have to ensure that we get that information so that we can do the work required.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

What would happen to former inmates going through halfway houses? Will they be able to receive their benefits?