Human Resources Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2010

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The other thing is maybe the unintended consequence of Mr. Comartin's amendment. He says that their pension would commence in respect of the month in which they—the person imprisoned—or Correctional Service notify the minister in writing of their presumptive release date.

Presumably, if the person hadn't notified them, you might find yourself in a more difficult spot. Would I not be right in that?

[Rose-Gabrielle Birba]

That is correct. The language seems to be more restrictive and seems to attach the payment to this particular event. It means that if the person did not notify, there is a chance that the payment cannot occur. The way it is drafted is more restrictive.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay.

Now, as I understand it, pursuant to the legislation, I think in clause 11, it allows Service Canada and Corrections Services to enter into an information sharing agreement, and it's by virtue of that agreement that you're notified of the exact release date. Is that correct?

[Dominique La Salle]

Pardon me, sir, could you repeat that?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I understand that you're interested primarily in the “in fact” release date. You won't activate payment until you know of that. You get that information not from the prisoner but from Correctional Services through an information sharing agreement that you have put in place pursuant to clause 11 of this particular bill.

[Dominique La Salle]

Yes. It will be put in place if the bill is adopted. Yes, that is correct.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So there are two prongs to this: the release date, which you rely on from Service Canada; and the other is the personal information aspect, which you get from the prisoner.

[Dominique La Salle]

Yes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Now, is Service Canada going to set up in such a fashion that this information will be obtained well in advance of the release dates, so that some of the concerns of Mr. Comartin can be addressed?

[Dominique La Salle]

I think so. I think we're set up to do precisely that, to get in touch with the inmate before the release and ask for the information. Pursuant to our information exchange agreement with Correctional Service, we get the other prong that you mentioned.

They're not interchangeable. These are two different roles. The personal information of the inmate is personal information, and the information provided to us from Correctional Service is the precise information in terms of release. The two aspects are important and follow parallel tracks.

I think the current language permits, and that is our aim, the ability to get the file up to date, so there is a minimum waiting time with the issuance of the cheque.

Now, that depends on when in the month the release occurs. We process millions of cheques every month, so mid-month is the time when we close the book for that month, and the last three days of the month we actually print the cheques and do the electronic transfers, and so on.

It could conceiveably be that one misses that middle of the month closure and would have to wait six weeks. In these instances, we'll have a procedure in place to issue an urgent cheque manually, if you like. Our job is to deliver the precise payment in a timely fashion and do our due diligence quickly.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Can Mr. Comartin's concern, that the information gathering would start early and that the information be communicated at the earliest possible opportunity, actually be done under the existing legislation as you have it, in your opinion?

[Dominique La Salle]

I think so, yes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

In fact, his amendment may be less than clear, or may not have the clarity necessary to achieve what he's hoping to achieve given some of the discussions we've had about the presumptive release date and whether or not the inmate might notify you in any event.

[Dominique La Salle]

That's correct.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So in your opinion, it would be best to leave the legislation without the amendment.

[Dominique La Salle]

I understand the aim of the amendment, clearly, and I think the legislation does it well with the current language.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

We'll go to Dr. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for coming to our committee meeting.

I'd like to bring this amendment to our attention at the provincial level. In the way it is worded, this amendment also completely ignores provincial correctional services because when you say that Corrections Canada needs to notify human resources, what if they are not in the jurisdiction of Corrections Canada? By leaving it the way it is, it also allows provinces that agree to sign on to this act not to be bound and then it is up to the individual to notify human resources.

I just want to ask the witnesses whether that might be a problem.

[Dominique La Salle]

That is indeed the case. Correctional Services has no jurisdiction over provincial prison facilities and so on, so this will be a subject of a separate information sharing agreement. It does exclude the province. The amendment proposed would be only for application at the federal level.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Monsieur Lessard, would you like to speak to this?

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

My question is directed at Ms. Birba and it is about the Correctional Service. It is of a technical and legal nature.

We have an amendment along the same lines as that of Mr. Comartin. So we are going to support his amendment. However, we had anticipated that the detainee would have to give his authorization.

Is the Correctional Service required to obtain the incarcerated person's agreement in order to transmit this information to the Department of Human Resources?

[Rose-Gabrielle Birba]

I am somewhat less aware of what the Correctional Service does but I will nevertheless try to answer your question.

Generally, it depends on what kind of personal information we are dealing with. The Privacy Act restricts the use and acquisition of information about an individual. To give a short answer to your question, I would say that if the Correctional Service obtains the agreement of the individual, it can provide this information.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

So it would be more prudent to include a provision requiring the authorization of the detainee.

[Rose-Gabrielle Birba]

I do not know if it would be more prudent. I believe we need also to take into account the purpose of the legislation and the source of information. You really suggest a two-step process: the individual provides the information to the Correctional Service which then passes it on to Service Canada. The process would be somewhat faster if the individual provided the information directly to Service Canada. Since it would come directly from the individual, there would be a lesser risk of error.

I will ask Mr. La Salle to elaborate further but it seems to me that that is how the act works at the present time. Under the Old Age Security Act, we do not receive information from third parties regarding benefits. We deal directly with the individual in order to ensure that there will be no errors.