Evidence of meeting #36 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
What I'll do is this: we could try to get it translated and then hand it out, because it looks like a very good one. So that way you know it will be covered.
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
I'll skip the recommendations, because they are the same as the Adoption Council of Canada's. I do want to get to the citizenship, because I think I'm the only one who's maybe going to talk on citizenship.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Yes, please do. You have the time for that. I only wanted to let you know that it's okay—
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
It's okay. We'll get this translated and handed out, so you go ahead. You probably have about three minutes left.
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
Three minutes is enough.
I have the same recommendations as the Adoption Council of Canada because of the lack of information: stats, publishing, and what not. But I have some new recommendations for you.
One is that the government support or preferably adopt Bill C-569 of MP John Rafferty, calling for a national strategy for FASD to commit the government to develop a national plan for treatment and prevention, which we don't have at the moment.
On citizenship, Bill C-14, from 2007, an act to amend the Citizenship Act, was applauded for bringing equality to adopted children. It did the opposite. Lawyers from the Canadian Bar Association recommended that adoptive parents use the permanent residency route instead of the direct citizenship route because the new faster route has no appeal. Now adoption advocates are recommending the permanent residency route again because the other creates a two-tier system. Now I have the same recommendation that the Adoption Council of Canada had: to amend the regulations accompanying Bill C-37 so internationally adopted children have the same legal status as children born in Canada and are permitted to transmit their citizenship by descent to children born abroad.
One thing that Bill C-14 did right was to ensure that adopted children can no longer be deported for criminality if their parents did not obtain their citizenship. Before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration in June 2006, an official from CIC said "...to respond to charter concerns, all adopted persons would no longer be prevented from acquiring citizenship for any criminality...”. She said it was an equity matter.
In June 2008, the first of a number of adoptees who were under threat of deportation received their Canadian citizenship. A few of us protected Gilberto Currie, adopted from Brazil. We protected him for five years and kept him from being deported to Brazil until the bill was passed. We do not know how many adoptees could have been in the same position.
The fact that people are still choosing to adopt internationally by the permanent residency route leaves the possibility that parents may not obtain citizenship for their children, which can create great hardships if the adoption fails. Children who come to Canada to be adopted and whose adoptions break down before they obtain citizenship are still under threat of deportation today. This must be stopped. Canada must not bring children here in inter-country adoption only to send them back to a country they have not seen since childhood, where they know no one and do not speak the language.
Mario Perez came to Canada from Mexico to be adopted at the age of five and was deported to Mexico in 2006 at the age of 22. Efforts to prevent this failed, and he still wants to come back. We are now supporting Tina Desrosiers, who came to Canada—
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
I'm sorry, Ms. Ross, we will translate this and get out the story for everyone to read. I'm so sorry we have to limit your time.
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
It's all right. I just have a recommendation that something be done, because it's very complicated to get through the citizenship process, and people whose adoption failed need to be helped to make sure they become citizens.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
What I think we'll have to discuss as a committee is we may want to bring back officials from immigration to talk about some of the issues you've brought up.
I'll make sure this is translated and distributed to all the members so they can read the report you've prepared. I want to thank you for the work you've done in preparing that.
We have a short time before the end of our meeting, so we'll have one round of five-minute questions and answers.
We'll begin with Mr. Savage, please.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses. We've had some compelling testimony here today. It's certainly an emotional issue for people who've gone through the process, either having been adopted or in your cases adopting children or perhaps both.
Lauren, you may be the youngest witness we've had here, but you're one of the best we've ever had. You did a great job.
I have a brother who adopted a little girl from China. I have a sister who's adopted two children in Ontario, and I'm the proud godfather of one them—a little girl who was born with FASD and is doing very well. It's pretty clear that from an adoption point of view it comes in all ages and all kinds and all sizes and all different conditions from all parts of the world. There probably isn't a single solution. We are hearing there are some specific things we could do that would assist in many cases. Your testimony is very helpful.
There are a couple of things I want to pick up on, if I could.
Mr. Moore, I think it was you who suggested.... Jeff Watson had mentioned earlier, in the previous panel, about how do you deal with paternal parental. I think what you're suggesting is to forget about that and have an adoptive parents benefit. Is that what you're suggesting?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, I am. It would match up with the maternal, so it would add the additional 15 weeks. But it would be a set-aside for adoptive parents. It would address some of the issues you heard today and in the previous panel about bonding, attachment, etc.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
So just have a whole new category and make it simpler.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Okay, thank you.
Ms. Alarie, thank you for your testimony as well. I found it very compelling. One of the things you said was interesting. It was about expanding the definition of “disability”. I guess you're speaking about kids who are FASD or born addicted to crack cocaine or things like that in utero. Can you just expand on that a little bit? What you would like to see?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
One of the most common issues the parents within our support groups face is that they aren't able to have all of their children's needs recognized. When they are exposed to substance within the womb, when they come into adoption, the services they need are not necessarily recognized as disabilities. So it makes the coordination of services and obtaining individual education plans very difficult for them in terms of advocacy and support within the schools.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Okay. I agree with that.
Ms. Clemenger, I'm looking at the article you've written. It's pretty clear from a number of different people's points of view that we don't have enough awareness across the country of how many children are actually in need. You referenced that in your testimony.
I'm looking at an interview with Sandra Scarth of the Adoption Council of Canada. The question was asked whether Canadians are aware of the number of children waiting to be adopted. She said, “No, we don't have funding for public awareness campaigns at all. In Canada only 8 per cent of the waiting children get placed. In the United States it's around 30 per cent.”
That's quite a difference. Let's talk about that a little bit.
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I think comparatively the U.S. has a voluntary sector that's been on this in a different way.
One of the programs that we're promoting, at least from the perch that both my husband and I are a part of right now, our world.... What he does is run a ship of about 39 Protestant denominations in Canada. There are over 80 affiliates, such as World Vision and so on. We're seeking to mobilize those denominations at the denominational level to embrace this as one of their top key priorities. They meet annually on a president's day, CEOs only. They go through that, so he's had the blessing to move on this in a way that can get information at ground zero. He'll be working with Catholics and Anglicans on this. It will be a very generic, easy-to-digest type of kit. Again, this is to get people past the myths, which we feel are dominant right now. I tried to articulate our journey, I think partly because we were choosing adoption in our story. People were very aggressive to try to talk us out of it.
So we got the goods for a number of years on that. We're looking at it and saying that when we talk to people at ground zero on what their hurdles are and why they're not adoptive, the first thing we find is the lack of good information--awareness. You'll see that my first recommendation is actually to please endorse in your recommendations, somewhere in some government office, to promote this. I see car seats every night watching the news. I see a whole bunch of things the Canadian government is doing.
We see myths as a big thing. We see fears in objectives. And that is going to take the harder work, because part of the systemic failure that you're going to hear about from people is that in essence, we have a system that is based on bias.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you for coming and welcome.
I am going to try to summarize the main needs. We've heard other witnesses before you. Am I wrong to say that your main challenges are especially post-adoption? Perhaps you disagree. We will come back to this and you can answer then.
I understood that you don't have support groups and that you need to network. You would like adoptive parents to get the same employment insurance benefits as biological parents.
I am speaking to those who have received the benefits: is a 55% benefit rate sufficient? I know that, in Quebec, the benefits go up to 70% of insurable earnings. There is even a maximum insurable salary of $62,500. At the federal level, the maximum salary is around $43,000. Could you also tell me whether this benefit rate was sufficient for you or if you needed more? That's probably the case.
My other question is for Ms. Ross. You talked about Bill C-14, which is meant to speed up the adoption and citizenship process. From listening to you, I get the impression that it has not quite been meeting its objective. I would have liked to hear you talk more about the bill.
Mr. Moore, I am listening to what you have to say about the main needs.
November 30th, 2010 / 10:25 a.m.
As an Individual
First, regarding Bill C-14, as I alluded to in my opening remarks, there is an issue with it. We went through the Bill C-14 route when we adopted our son from South Africa last year. It was a wonderful experience, in that we came home with a Canadian passport. We came home with the shiny white temporary passport, and we appreciated that route.
The ability for him to carry on citizenship is an issue that came with that bill. As I alluded to, we have a biological son who is now almost four months old, and we have an adopted son who is three years old. If our biological son were outside of the country he could pass on citizenship, and that's great. If our adopted son, who is from South Africa, were outside the country, he could not pass on citizenship to his children. That is a substantive issue. The legal standing in Canada is different, and it should be remedied.
I may be unique in the fact that I did not experience a need for a substantive amount of post-adoption support. I know there are a lot of issues that come with adoption, especially of older children. I know you've heard a lot of stories. What I find to be a bigger issue with adoption, frankly, when you go internationally, is the upfront costs. International adoptions cost about, as I said, $20,000 to $50,000. For instance, to adopt from South Africa we had to spend almost a month in South Africa. It was a wonderful place to spend a month, but it was a month abroad. If you adopt from Russia, you have to fly there two or three times in the adoption process. That's expensive. To adopt internationally is cost-prohibitive.
As I said, there are 30,000 children, so it depends on what your calling is and on whether you feel you're called to adopt domestically or called to adopt internationally. That's a personal and individual choice.