Evidence of meeting #36 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would first like to thank you for being here. Your testimonies from this morning were remarkable. I feel very strongly about—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Mr. Lessard, I'll just have you wait for a moment.
Do you all have your translation?
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
On a point of order, we should probably restart the time rather than start it, because they've lost the benefit of his original statement.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Thank you very much, Mr. Watson, we'll do that. We'll restart the time.
Mr. Lessard, we'll begin again.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Mr. Watson. That's very nice of you.
As I said earlier, your testimonies were remarkable. I am very concerned about this. In my opinion, we should view and treat all the children around the world as our own.
Ms. Haire said she noticed in 1994 that Ontario and Quebec had limited resources in support of adoption. I feel that progress has been made since. I believe you're aware that the jurisdiction issue comes into play as well. Ms. Folco pointed that out earlier. This morning, you made a series of recommendations on adoption. You specifically referred to a training manual, a website, resources, therapists, children's behaviour problems, leadership, mentorship, and attachment. These are areas where the provinces have to get involved.
I will be focusing more now on the measures you're proposing and that I think are under federal jurisdiction. One major measure is using employment insurance money to allow parental leave. We agree on that. We are going to study this proposal. As you must certainly know, both the adoption and the birth of a child allow for parental leave in Quebec.
You are proposing two other measures that I think deserve our attention. You're talking about the legal system and the training that could be provided to lawyers and judges who handle adoption cases in court. Could you expand on this?
My other question is for all of you.
In your own way, you each talked about national public awareness campaigns. Why? What should they cover? Given that your experience makes you experts in some ways, I would like to hear what you have to say about these two topics.
As an Individual
I was talking about training for judges and lawyers because, in my opinion, they are not necessarily aware of what we have talked about today. So it is important that they get the proper training. They understand the legal adoption process, but that's it. They don't know anything else about it. When I talked about training, I was specifically referring to the people from the United States because I think it is important that people in all professions be aware.
Two or three years ago, NACAC held a conference here in Ottawa. I advertised the event to all the lawyers and judges in Quebec and Ontario, as well as to all learning institutions, both English-speaking and French-speaking. Yet almost no one came. That's really sad.
This is related to the suggestion I made with respect to the Mental Health Commission of Canada raising awareness. To my knowledge, this commission is new. In general, when you talk about a site like the Mental Health Commission of Canada, adoption is included in that. It is important. When we talk about attachment—and I'm not only referring to adopted children—
we're talking about loss, grief...
This all has to do with adoption, but also with the public at large. I am aware that there are provincial and federal jurisdictions, but we could still overcome that and establish links between the two.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Madam Chair, I would also like to get an answer about the awareness campaigns. We could come back to that.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Like everybody else, I thank you for your stories this morning. It certainly gives me hope for our children and, because of that, for our future.
Having said that, there are lots of challenges. Our work is to figure out what we, as the federal government, might do to facilitate and make that easier.
I heard a number of you speak of attachment issues and the need for more time with your children to get to know them, and to learn how to dance together more cohesively. You mentioned the EI system and the actual benefits that would be helpful, which you don't get but natural parents do, But I also heard, underneath that, a couple of things. One is that if you had more resources, you could do a lot more.
Each of you talked about finding resources to help with some of the challenges of the children you have taken into your families. It goes back, for me, to a study that we just finished on poverty and what we might put in place by way of national programs to support families. One of them was a very strong recommendation for a national child care program. Would that be helpful to adoptive parents?
As an Individual
At this point, any assistance parents could get would be greatly appreciated, because we don't have the supports. We do not have a system set up here in Canada, and it varies widely provincially. I live in Ontario. In Ontario we are really lacking versus Calgary. When she said today she was from Calgary, I said I knew people who travel from Ontario to Alberta to get training, especially on FASD, because we just do not have that available here.
If we did have the extra time with our children initially.... And attachment is all about brain development. If a child is not capable of attaching, there are developmental delays. If initially parents had the funding to stay home with the kids for that first year, it would lay the groundwork for them maybe to not have problems down the line.
If they had that initial attachment, you might be able to identify some of the developmental delays, get help, be home to work with the child, and take care of some of these issues before years later, when you have problems where children are acting out. You hear about promiscuity, girls that haven't been able to attach early. If we had that extra time early and there were some sort of a benefit or a fund....
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
We also recommended that the national child tax benefit be increased to at least $5,000 for each child. That would give parents and families more money to get the services they need.
I was specifically referring to a child care program where early learning would be a huge component. It speaks to that motor development and cognitive development, and those kinds of things where you actually have professionals providing a quality of care that speaks to some of that. Perhaps a kind of growth that may not be possible even at home, where you need the assistance and expertise and knowledge of somebody who knows about early learning and development--is that something that...?
As an Individual
I was fortunate that when I had to return to work right away, I had a caregiver just down the road who was a natural. She worked with my kids so well and really helped with the attachment of my older son. She was my care provider. I certainly think there is room for what you're talking about. It is really important.
You mentioned professionals. Are you talking about day care professionals, or other professionals as well?
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I'm talking about a national child care program based on the principles that those out there who know more about this than I do.... Early learning is certainly an important part of that, and quality care, as opposed to just babysitting.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
You are done. I'm sorry. The five minutes go very quickly.
Mr. Watson.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to our witnesses for appearing.
We appreciate, of course, your very compelling testimony today. I think your personal experiences lend some very valuable guidance to this committee in terms of the successes or challenges you face in your own journey.
I want to start for just a quick moment on EI, which has been the focus of a lot of presentations before this committee from other panels before you. I presume there are two ways to look at this. We've had some recommend that we raise the number of parental weeks to 50 weeks, which presumably would mean there would still be a maternity benefit payable on top of that--parental being for care and attachment issues with children. It would have to be available to both adoptive and biological.
Or there's the other way, which is we have parental at 35 weeks, as it exists now, and a maternity benefit for 15 weeks, and some sort of a transition leave for adoptive parents that would be equivalent to maternity, which would equalize everybody out at 50 weeks. Presumably, though, you'd have to lay the intellectual rationale for why there should be a transition leave that's not focused around the attachment of children. That would be parental.
My question is you've spoken a lot about the attachment issues that are related to children. Ms. Kowalko, we'll start with you and go down the panel this way. Talk about some of the psychological or other challenges for mothers who adopt children and why the additional time is necessary for you, why a transition leave would be important for your own benefit--things that may be specific to challenges that adoptive moms face that biological mothers might not face.
As an Individual
Typically, when children come into care--I was a foster parent first--children are not attached to you. They don't even know who you are. You're a complete stranger. When they come, you have to work through attachment issues.
With that, for an adoptive mother, I have seen children into adoptive situations and the children have left me and gone to a new mom. Initially it's all exciting and everything's wonderful, and then the moms, when they realize the child is missing me and I've been able to transition children into their home, feel a sense of rejection. So I have had to help moms get help because they're embarrassed in a way that here they dreamed of this baby or this child for years and then the child came and rejected them.
Because mom is the one at home. Dad comes home.... It's not always this way, but dad comes home, plays with the kids, it's all fun and everything's wonderful. Mom's there all day long, and the child is crying and upset and behavioural after the honeymoon period is over because they're missing what they once had.
So there are times that moms need to have support to get the help they need, a place to go to say “This isn't what I signed up for. This isn't how I expected it to be.” Time heals those issues.
There's a family I have worked with for years, and I had to hook her into an attachment specialist so that she would bond with her child. So I have worked with adoptive families when they've received their children, and the attachment issues have been big and secret.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Do any of the other panellists want to weigh in on some of the issues?