Evidence of meeting #8 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Chartrand  Vice-President, Métis National Council
Peter Dinsdale  Executive Director, National Association of Friendship Centres
Conrad Saulis  Policy Director, National Association of Friendship Centres

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, CPC)) Conservative Candice Bergen

I'd like to call to order meeting eight of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Good afternoon, everyone. We are continuing our study today on poverty and the federal contribution to reducing poverty in Canada. We are very pleased to have some representatives today from the aboriginal community. From the Métis National Council, I want to welcome David Chartrand, vice-president. Mr. Chartrand is from my home province of Manitoba.

It's great to have you here, Mr. Chartrand.

I'd also like to welcome Wenda Watteyne. Thank you for being here.

You can present for 10 minutes, Mr. Chartrand, and then we will have questions from the members of the committee.

3:30 p.m.

David Chartrand Vice-President, Métis National Council

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a prepared text I will read from. It's not usually my style. I usually speak from the hip and ad lib my speeches, but for the record, and on behalf of the Métis National Council, I will read some segments on issues that we believe may be of help to this committee and at the same time will send a message on our priorities.

Thank you for inviting us to make a presentation elaborating upon what role the federal government should play in fighting poverty in Canada. Parliament and the Government of Canada have direct, specific, and substantial responsibilities to improve socio-economic conditions for aboriginal people, including the Métis--and I emphasize “including the Métis”.

These responsibilities flow from a variety of sources, not just subsection 91(24) of the Constitution Act of 1867. There's also the responsibility to make the functioning of the Canadian economic union as successful as possible. A successful economy depends on productive, contributing Métis citizens. Canadians cannot afford, either nationally or in their regions and communities, to see Métis people lag behind. As taxpayers to both levels of government, we envisage a strong role for the federal government that goes beyond providing tax credits or reducing taxes for working class Métis Canadians.

These measures, as successful as they may be for some, do not go far enough for the Métis and the needs of the large number of Métis people who live below the poverty line. Many of the Métis people who live below the poverty line are either young families or families who have more than three children. It is interesting to note that the 20th anniversary of the unanimous all-party resolution in the House of Commons to end child poverty by 2000 has just passed. Yet according to the 2006 census, 32% of Métis children under the age of six were in low-income families, compared to 18% of non-aboriginal children. According to the 2006 census, 32% of young Métis children were living in families with three or more children, compared to 25% of non-aboriginal children. Métis children in rural areas were more likely to live in families with three or more children than Métis children in urban areas--39% versus 30%. Yet the percentage of Métis children living in low-income families was higher in urban areas than in rural areas--36% compared to 20%.

In 2005, the median income of the Métis in Canada was lower than that of the non-aboriginal population. Indeed, it was about $5,000 less than the median income of $25,955 reported for the non-aboriginal population.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Excuse me, Mr. Chartrand. Could I just ask you to read a little slower so the translator can keep up with you?

3:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

Sure. I will.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you. I will give you time to complete it.

3:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

That's my Métis accent coming out. I read faster than I should be.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much.

3:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

I will slow it down, Madam Chair.

Across the country, the difference in median income between the Métis and the non-aboriginal population was widest in Alberta and in the territories. In Alberta, the Métis median income at $22,839 was about $6,600 less than that of the non-aboriginal population at $29,501.

We believe the federal government must move on two fronts. First, it must continue to expand skills training and post-secondary educational support for Métis people. Second, it must expand its support for Métis families for child care and for early learning supports like Métis head starts.

Métis governments have been delivering skills training and providing educational supports for Métis for the last 10 years. We have worked with many organizations over the years, including the Canadian Council on Learning. We agree with them that education and learning make individual Canadians and communities as a whole more resilient and better equipped to adapt to economic turbulence, and I'll quote from a statement:

Evidence demonstrates that higher education and continuous skills training are protective factors during times of economic instability--such as we are experiencing today--and a competitive advantage during periods of relative stability... Conversely, less-educated Canadians are less employable. They receive less workplace training. They have lower incomes and little or no savings. They are more likely to lose their jobs and remain unemployed for longer periods of time.

Accordingly, we believe the federal government should continue to extend support for Métis governments to meet the skills training and educational needs of Métis people. This should include expanded supports for Métis with disabilities and for those persons who face multiple deficits in obtaining employment.

Métis governments should be provided with further support to assist Métis to obtain post-secondary education. As it now stands, the federal government does not cover the cost of post-secondary education for Métis students. Out of the federal aboriginal education funds, Métis students do not receive any. Métis government support for these funds is limited to providing funding for their last year of university out of our training dollars.

And what that is referencing--for people to grasp--is the aboriginal human resources development program. There is now a new program called ASEP, which has been approved by this government. In that particular program, if we meet all our targets and all of our interventions, any surplus dollars can be used in the last year of post-secondary education.

We lose too many students who cannot make it to the last year of their studies because of financial constraints. We recommend that Parliament build upon existing Métis bursaries and endowments and allocate funds so that every Métis in the country who can pursue post-secondary studies has the support he or she needs.

Our second major recommendation on the proper role of the federal government in fighting poverty focuses upon the need for the federal government to expand its support for Métis child care and early learners. It is now universally accepted that early learning supports, like Head Start, do make an enormous difference in improving educational outcomes later in life.

Simply put, it provides a better foundation for children to reach their potential. The federal government recognized this in 1990 in the establishment of the off-reserve Head Start program. While this program was very much welcome, and we commend the friendship centres, it has failed to meet the needs of the vast majority of Métis children within the Métis homeland.

Program developers bypassed Métis governments and implemented the program primarily through the friendship centres, which serve only a minority of the Métis population as a result of being located largely in urban centres. Moreover, the resources are too thinly stretched to meet the needs of the Métis population as a whole. Less than 50% of Métis children under age 6 had the benefit of an early learning environment.

Moreover, Métis do not have access to a child care component within the current aboriginal human resources programming. That, again, is the new program called ASEP. There is money set aside for Inuit and first nations for child care. We don't have any. We're on our own on that issue.

Métis, who have similar family structures to those of first nations, both having large young families, are denied child care supports, thus limiting our ability to meet the needs of these young families.

In both of these areas, provinces are not meeting our needs. Accordingly, we recommend that the federal government assume the role of supporting Métis governments in meeting the needs of Métis for child care in the area of early learning.

The Métis National Council has long acknowledged the importance of aboriginal labour force development programs that are respectful of Métis Nation governance structures. We are proud of our successes and recently sought an independent review of our results and the economic impacts of the work we are doing.

We are tabling here the Centre for the Study of Living Standards report, which I believe has not yet been given. I encourage you to take this study and read it. I know it's quite lengthy, but to grasp just a segment of that report...it showcases one small investment that I'll use as an example—and I'm speaking a little out of context here because I'm finishing off.

If the Métis were to actually attain the 2001 education level of non-aboriginal Canadians today, by 2026 we'd be contributing $81.5 billion into the economy--if we were just to put that segment of investment into our kids, put them into school, and get them into post-secondary education. It would average about a $3 billion rise in tax revenue, in fact a $7.5 billion rise in GDP, if that were to happen; and by 2026, it would mean an $81 billion rise in GDP in this country.

So I hope this study will enlighten you on some of the benefiting factors that would take place if the government would actually take a Métis-specific strategy and begin to invest in our needs.

I also want to table with you Métis Works—and I brought everybody a copy. It's one of our publications from the AHRDA program that we deliver for Canada. You'll note in the document when you read it—you can skim through it—the varying fields of people we train and jobs we create for them, whether it's in the police force, or heavy equipment and construction, or even the legal profession. The people we've invested in and the success we've had in attaining full-time jobs and maintaining those full-time jobs is quite profound in the sense of the moneys it's actually contributing back into Canada.

You'll also note our investments, when you read this document. We ourselves have started to invest through this program, in partnership with the universities, particularly in Manitoba, as an example. Through this program, as I echoed earlier, if we meet all our targets and interventions, the surplus dollars can be invested in post-secondary. We started that investment eight years ago in Manitoba. Today we have $9 million in endowment funds. The university has matched me dollar for dollar for every dollar I raise. We have now given $1.5 million back to our children who are going to university. So just a small intervention such as that, a little investment like that, has truly made a remarkable change. That's only $9 million. If it could be really well planned and well thought out, imagine what the true benefits would be.

I'll end with that. I know my ten minutes are up.

I usually like to speak off the cuff. I hate reading speeches. But I'm more than willing to answer any questions and try to give you the best snapshot I can of our situation as Métis people in Canada.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much, Mr. Chartrand. We appreciate you reading your report and also the remarks that you have just made.

We will have the first round of questions. The seven minutes will include the question and the answer.

We'll start with Madam Minna.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, and thank you for coming. We really appreciate this. We've been working on this report for some time and we want to make sure we get it right.

I want to touch on a few things with you. Could you fill me in a little bit on the situation with respect to women in the Métis community: women's income level and access to services, which is directly affected by some of the things you've already mentioned, such as child care, and so on, their impact on women's economic security?

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

That's a very broad question. I'll reflect first and look at our government, the Métis government. In fact, most of the people who are employed there are women. Actually, a lot of them are in management and are directors. But if you look at the status of the community, you'll find that in Métis communities, women actually face a very challenging hill; they have to go over and above their male counterparts. In our culture the women are always the dominant force in the family, especially when it comes to children. You'll find in Métis communities that there are no programs set aside. There are no aboriginal head start programs; we don't have those in our communities. If somebody is fortunate enough to get a day care, again, it will not be located in our rural communities; we don't have them. They will have to travel great distances to drop off their children or find babysitting within their own families, and at the same time try to get an education or a job.

So the challenge women face is...I would say it's a major hindrance, in the sense of them catching up to the issue we find in this country. How do we balance the state of women versus men in this country? What I do know for a fact is that when we tried at the Métis National Council to raise the profile of Métis women, to include their views and their points, and to bring issues of this nature to the fore, we were disallowed funding.

We have our Métis Women's Secretariat, which is within our Métis Nation government structure, but Canada will not fund it. This is a standing position of the previous government and of this government. They will not fund it unless it incorporates itself and becomes a creature in itself--not to work with our governments, not to be with us, not to sit at the table to make change in the very fabric of what affects them; they have to be separate and completely apart from us. From our governance structure in the Métis government, it doesn't make sense. Even the women don't agree with it. For some reason, the government continues to push this issue, and Métis women today do not have either a seat at the constitutional table when we have discussions or a seat in the sense of the aboriginal leadership in this country.

We are still pressing that issue very strongly, but again, it's a good example to showcase that Métis women are falling further behind because there's a lack of support for them.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I appreciate that, because I have some understanding, from having met with rural women in Canada... I have also met with some other aboriginal organizations. I was up in Iqaluit and met with women up there. I've been mainly trying to talk to women in different situations in the country, and I know that women tend to be much more isolated and poverty affects them a great deal more. When you deal with things like child care, as you said, the assumption is that if you're in rural Canada you don't need child care, because the kids have a lot of places to run, but of course you know that's not true—

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Many of them work part time, and many of them need training and education.

So access to services for women in rural areas...child care is one, but education and skills training are also a problem in terms of accessing government services.

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

Definitely, because there is a lack of the supports they need, and that's what you'll find.

I say this openly and candidly in this room. Over half of the board in my government is women, so I can guarantee that women's issues are always at the forefront of our discussions. But what impresses me, as the president—we have over 800 employees, because we do child welfare and so forth in our province. It's amazing the strength they have, because they pick up their kids at day care, they go home, they cook, they clean, and then they come back to work again.

I'm a momma's boy first, and maybe that's why I see that concept. But clearly, from our standpoint, I think there's such a massive shortfall in the eyes of government, and in the eyes of our own governments, too. We need to put in more of a structured environment to create those opportunities for them. But the challenge you face is...for example, as I said, the Métis Women's Secretariat in our national movement is not allowed to get funding unless they go out on their own. Where that comes from does not make sense to me.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Chartrand, thank you. I guess my time is up. I'm not sure.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

You have two minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Thank you.

I appreciate that, because it's obviously an area that I have some interest in.

I want to go back a little bit to some of the things you've said. You talked about education, skills training, and what that would do to us and to the Métis young people today if they were all to be educated and had access to education. And I agree with you, it is a waste for us not to educate our young people.

Can you tell me a little bit about housing, to what extent housing is a major issue in your communities—

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

Well, the easiest way--

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I'm talking about affordable and accessible quality housing. If there is a lack of housing, to what extent does it affect the issue of health and other situations?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

There is a big housing crisis in Métis communities. We haven't had a house built in our communities for probably 12 or 15 years. The province is now embarking upon social housing, and we'll see where that takes us. There is clearly a shortfall. There's overcrowding, and it has a direct impact on families and what the women can do in their own households.

Housing is a growing factor, and it includes a health factor. Over the last four years we've done Métis-specific research, because Canada and the province do not have statistics on Métis people. You have it for first nations, but you don't have it for Métis.

The statistics show us that the Métis have surpassed most Canadians on chronic illnesses. We have now surpassed first nations on chronic illnesses, due to the lack of health programs. We have no health programs in our communities.

People might not believe what I'm saying here, but I encourage people to come to see our communities. Because of this jurisdictional limbo, nobody provides programs in our communities. We're on our own. We have to travel great distances even for health care. Sometimes we have to travel 100 miles just to see a doctor. We also have to pay for it ourselves. As you can see from the statistics I gave you regarding income levels, it's very difficult. Some people avoid seeing a doctor when they should see one. But they can't afford it. So there is a health crisis in our communities today.

On housing, I'm envisioning that in our province of Manitoba, for example, there might be some small fortune coming under the new housing the premier has announced. But we still have a long way to go.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you.

Monsieur Lessard, s'il vous plaît.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First, I would like to welcome our guests and tell them that their testimony is critical for our study on poverty. Likewise, when we conducted our study on employability, we had the occasion to hear presentations on conditions of access and job retention and to discover to what extent Aboriginal and Metis communities were sometimes prejudiced compared to non-Aboriginal people.

This day is all the more important because I should wish you a happy anniversary. In fact, this is the 50th anniversary of voting rights for First Nations. In a democratic society, I believe that this is very significant.

To get straight to the heart of what I want to say, in the beginning of 2009, in the context of the Economic Action Plan, you submitted to the Canadian government your own stimulus plan for the Metis nation. From what I can see in this project, and primarily from what you said earlier—if there are noteworthy distinctions to be made, I would like to be made aware of them—, it is important for us to know how your project was received by the Canadian government.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Métis National Council

David Chartrand

What project are you referring to?

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

It is the economic action plan for the Metis nation that you have submitted to the Canadian government I believe in 2009.