Human Resources Committee on March 31st, 2010

[David Chartrand]

I'll start off with the last question with regard to the stimulus. In Canada we signed a protocol with Minister Strahl to advance a new partnership with the Métis people. One of the segments in the protocol was to include the Métis as part of this stimulus plan.

We were invited...in fact our national leader attended a meeting with the Prime Minister. We were encouraged to put together plans, which we did. I think we've got some comprehensive and well thought out strategies, which would make some significant change to our situation. We're hearing there's potential for some of them moving ahead.

One of them is called a syndicated loan fund. We just met with Strahl to try to emphasize and enhance that very quickly. The syndicated loan fund will partner with our capital corporations. We have three in western Canada. It would enhance the three capital corporations to be able to help small and medium-sized business give loans of up to $1 million.

It's a proven fact that the capital corporations we manage are very successful. We showcase quite a substantial number of loans and we've been able to sustain ourselves. The funding is provided through Aboriginal Business Canada. We then manage the affairs through... There's no funding beyond that. We fund ourselves by earning interest from our initial contribution.

The stimulus loan fund—we're hoping the syndicated one—will be the first one to come down. We haven't had any success beyond that at this point. We're hoping we can get some of these to grab traction. So with regard to that, this seems to be the most promising one at this point.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

To what extent would this fund have an impact on the reduction of poverty? What elements of this measure would influence the level of poverty?

[David Chartrand]

If you look at the Métis community—and I'll give you an example of the economic incentives that occur in our community as indicators of jobs—our traditional economy is one of the pivotal creators of jobs. I'm talking about forestry, commercial fishing, tourism, trapping—pivotal traditional economies. They were the backbone of our communities. Most of those are now factored out. They've either been pushed out by bigger companies coming in from the United States and taking over the forestry--for example, in Manitoba--or the commercial fishery is being overrun by fresh water corporations. It's suffocating the industry. As these economies fall, we're seeing the communities falling apart.

I'll use my community of Duck Bay as the easiest example. We had a promising community, a booming community. We used to have five stores in our little community; today we have zero. We still have a population of 800 in that little community, but the entire economy is crumbling. You're seeing the 70% of people employed revert to 70% on welfare. No factory is coming tomorrow to replace this lack of traditional economies as they fade away.

Either we think outside the box and create new opportunities or we have to lift all these people from their rural areas and put them into urban centres to try to find jobs, because there are no other jobs coming tomorrow to replace the traditional economies that are crumbling.

It's a scary thing. It worries us a lot as leaders. Our Métis people have always been entrepreneurial and hard working. We pay hundreds of millions in taxes. At the end of the day, we're going to become a social problem if something is not done to change it quickly.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Am I to understand that your stimulus plan could provide us with a roadmap, for instance, to create instruments in the fight against poverty?

[David Chartrand]

Yes, guaranteed. If you take the time to reflect on some of the independent studies, they'll show what the spinoff will be if you invest in this or that field, not only for the Métis but for all Canadians. I think it's imperative to look outside of what...

If I can impress on this committee, I would encourage you not to get caught up on the word “aboriginal”. That is just a definition of treaty peoples in this country. We use the word “aboriginal”... For example, there's an article in the paper—aboriginal people's education and university funds are being frozen at $300-million-and-something. My people are asking me where that money is. I'm telling them it's not for us; it's only for first nations. We get zero from that fund. But when government uses the word “aboriginal”, Canadians think I'm getting all this money and my people are getting this money. We're getting nothing. So it's important that committees like this use this thinking as a base: either you're first nations, Métis, or Inuit. Then at least you'll know the money being spent is being spent in the right place and you can target and measure it and at the same time challenge, if investing that kind of money is not producing results.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

I'm sorry, your time...

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

For our own purposes, could the Committee obtain a copy of this plan that was submitted to the Minister? This report is dated from the beginning of last year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

We can see if we can get that and we'll let you know. We'll find out.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

[The editor: technical difficulties] …it is entirely possible since it is referenced in the Library notes. I suppose that it is possible.

[An Hon. Member]

We don't know if it is in French.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

We could have it translated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

We'll find out if we can get it in both official languages. We'll report back to you.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

We could have it translated at that time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Mr. Martin.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you for coming today and helping us with this work we're doing, which is to try to determine what will be the most appropriate intervention by the federal government in trying to relieve poverty in the country.

We know that many provinces have launched their own strategies, and you've mentioned today that in some instances provincial housing money has been promised. Now, you indicated that it hasn't really shown up on the street yet, but it's been promised.

I looked at a report from the Conference Board of Canada yesterday that indicated that 20% of the Canadian population cannot afford appropriate housing. They're either subsidized or they're in inappropriate housing for the size of the family, or whatever. And you have indicated to us today some of the challenges that face the Métis people.

What we're looking for are some thoughts and ideas on what it is you think, given our mandate and jurisdictional responsibility, we could do that would be most helpful. Maybe you could prioritize that for the Métis people. You mentioned education for your children. You mentioned housing. So what would be the most important?

Are there any examples you can point to out there in the Métis community across Canada where you're having success and perhaps where the different levels of government are participating?

[David Chartrand]

Thank you.

If there were any recommendation I'd suggest that would result in significant change, clearly it would be investing in Métis-specific child care. That would be the first and fundamental one, to strengthen the family. It has to be Métis. I used the words “Métis-specific”. Don't use the word “aboriginal”, because then we'll probably never get it, but if you use the words “Métis-specific child care” as a direct focus, I think you will see a major change. It will help the situation as it pertains to Métis women in this country, but also give some stability to the family household.

The second recommendation I'd make, clearly, is creating an education fund. I gave the example of the endowment fund that we have been able to create by dollar-for-dollar matching with universities. We have returned $1.5 million in revenue back to our kids in post-secondary education.

We know that Statistics Canada shows that the Métis are the fastest growing aboriginal population in western Canada. The Métis are growing by leaps and bounds, based on everybody self-declaring who they are. More importantly, if Canada were to take, for example, $300 million and put it into an endowment fund, then our Métis students could tap into that through our governments. That would be a one-time contribution the government could make. It would always be something that Métis children and their families would know was resting in place, so they can pursue an education.

What we are finding, for example, is that our children are going to school and more of them are graduating from grade 12 than before, but they are stopping there. That is not what this country needs. What is triggering this and what I think we have been able to capture—though statistically we can't show this—from discussions with our communities and families is that our children are not going past the second phase because our traditional economies have fallen. With that, the parents have no money to help their kids go to university. That is another indicator that it's causing great harm.

So educational investment would be a major change to help us, because we can compete with anybody equally. Apples to apples, we'll compete with anybody; give us a chance. We just don't have the tools for our kids to finish off their education.

Other examples of things that we're doing in Manitoba, and where change can happen, are in the area of procurement. You have a procurement strategy in this country, but you're not really utilizing it to its full extent, for the economic engines to actually take heed of it and develop. In Manitoba we're pushing hard for set-asides, not procurement, which should be automatic, but set-asides, which are a different segment of procurement. I say this because if there were an aboriginal set-aside for first nations and Métis and Inuit to compete against each other...whether in the construction industry or anything else, we are doing extremely well at it. The challenge we face is that not all governments want to go down that path, yet it is such a great success.

So I would encourage you to push this type of innovative way of thinking, whereby governments create opportunities by developing set-asides.

We have our own procurement strategy—

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Can you explain what set-asides are?

[David Chartrand]

Set-asides, Madam Chair, are this. In Manitoba, the Premier, for example, had a procurement strategy for the Red River diversion, saying that so many aboriginal people had to be hired for that. However, what he also did was to take $50 million and put it into a separate fund where only aboriginal construction contractors could compete inside that industry.

In fact, he praised it before the Prime Minister at the first ministers meeting. It was very successful. In fact, it came under budget and was definitely on time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

I see. Thank you.

[David Chartrand]

Those types of initiatives are great, but they are few and far between.

What we are finding now is that some of our companies that are starting to formulate themselves to become successful are being swallowed up by bigger companies. That's why they'll become the dinosaurs of the past, if there are no set-asides.

For example, a small Métis company in Manitoba started off with a truck, but the company owner can now bond up to $30 million or $35 million on hydro or construction projects. He's being swallowed up by big companies like Valard, which are undercutting him by $5 million to $7 million, and they are clearly doing it with the premise of getting rid of him. He basically came to plead with us on hydro that if it happened to him on one or two more hits, he would be finished. What is going to happen is that those little companies are all going to die out, and then Valard is going to be the only player in town, so those prices will go back up. It's like the loss leader in business.

We feel that the set-asides are protecting that, and we're pushing hydro and other institutions like them to start thinking that way.

In Manitoba we started our own procurement strategy in my own government. I pushed for it three years ago. Under it, 70% of all of my buying power has to go to Métis businesses or first nations businesses. I planted the seed. Now I can see the seeds sprouting out of the grass everywhere.

We spend millions on supplies, and yet we were going to Grand & Toy or Staples, even though they are not bringing anything back to my community. So now we have this procurement strategy in our Métis government. We are starting our own stationary company, our Métis “Staples”, if you want to call it that, and we are starting our own companies, which are starting to grow. We are pushing these types of strategic moves in our own economic engines, which although we have little of, we're seeing a dramatic turn of events taking place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Sorry, your time is up.

I have a quick question for you before we go to Mr. Komarnicki. Do you find as well in the rural communities--because we see this with the aboriginal and non-aboriginal, Métis and all populations--that a lot of kids aren't leaving to go to university or to trade schools because of the whole issue of leaving the rural area? It's not just leaving home, but the expense. Do you think there is value in developing more community colleges in our rural areas so there will be more uptake with all of our kids? I'm thinking specifically of trades.

[David Chartrand]

Thank you for the question, Madam Chair.

It reflects on my meetings I just concluded with university presidents. In Brandon, for example--let's talk about our province--there's a 0.5% vacancy rate. What they're finding is that there are also many... It goes back to an earlier question by--I forget her name, and I apologize. But we're finding that more single mothers aren't able to go because they have children. At 0.5%, they can't stay in the dorms.

So what we're finding is there's no place for these people to stay in rural versus the urban centres. Clearly finding innovative ways to bring the education to them would make a significant change. But a lot of universities can't afford to make that change right now with the tuition fight that's taking place. Clearly that would be one of the answers, because they don't have a place to go right now. There's a serious concern by most presidents right now in western Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Komarnicki, please.