Human Resources Committee on Feb. 6th, 2012

[Louis Beauséjour]

It's difficult to comment about what is exactly unfair and fair. Everybody has different views about what could be unfair and fair, but clearly, what I could say is that there are really limited circumstances under which the EI act provides for an extension of the benefit period and the qualifying period. I think there are a number of cases where there is no provision for an extension similar to what is provided to inmates right now.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Beauséjour.

We will now move to Rodger Cuzner for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us today and helping us with this particular undertaking.

Is there an MOU? HRSDC is obviously the de facto leader of skills training in this country, so would there be a relationship? Would you have an MOU with Corrections Canada for the training, within Corrections Canada, of those who are institutionalized or in prison? Do you know if there would be an MOU for their training?

[Louis Beauséjour]

I'm not aware of any MOU between HRSDC and—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You're not familiar.

[Louis Beauséjour]

I'm not aware if there is one or not.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You would think that Corrections Canada would have their own training for any skills acquisition within—

[Louis Beauséjour]

I cannot speak to that. I will say that Correctional Service Canada already has a program to rehabilitate inmates, but I'm not—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You're not familiar with it? Okay, I appreciate that.

I'll give you an example. A young guy is out with his friends. He's a carpenter, and they're out jigging around on their ATVs. He has an accident, shatters his leg, and is not able to go to work. He makes an application for EI sick benefits. Would that be investigated, or is just the fact that he's off with a broken leg sufficient for him to receive benefits?

[Louis Beauséjour]

To get access to the sick benefit, a claimant needs a medical certificate certifying that they are unable to work for that period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

That is not the subject of this bill, but you might jump from there to something that is.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

No, it's not far off from that. It's probably not unlike the guy who's having a lung removed, lying in the bed, and getting a sick benefit while having the lung removed. You would validate the medical certificate. You wouldn't investigate whether or not it was the responsibility of the guy getting a lung removed since a doctor told him ten years ago that he should quit smoking. You wouldn't investigate that.

[Louis Beauséjour]

No, I think we'd just ask the individual to provide medical certificates.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, but for the guy who shatters his leg and who is not able to go to work, as long as he's not able to go to work and the medical certificate is there, you investigate nothing beyond.... You don't try to determine whether or not it was beyond his control.

[Louis Beauséjour]

When we apply the sickness benefit, the only requirement is for the claimant to provide proof that they have.... We receive certificates.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

If he makes a mistake, if he's screwing around and does something wrong that probably could have been avoided and it's not beyond his control, that's still not investigated.

[Louis Beauséjour]

That's not investigated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I wonder then about the relevancy of the point you make to this bill.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It's been said on the government's side all day that these people are incarcerated, and that that was not beyond their control. We're being judgmental about what put them behind bars. So is there an inconsistency here?

Do you get my link there, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Okay, fair enough.

We'll move to the next round.

Is there somebody from the Conservative side who wishes to ask any questions of this witness?

Seeing none, we'll move to Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

To pick up on Mr. Cuzner's point, the point has been made that people who are incarcerated have made a choice, whereas some of these other extensions actually do apply to people who have not made a choice. They may be ill. There may be some complications with pregnancy. So there are other people who are eligible for extensions.

I don't need you to respond to that, but I think it's just important to lay that out.

I wanted to come to your calculations around the $3 million that you referenced. Can you tell us how you got there--the average benefit rate, the average length of claim--because that's going to affect that $3 million.

[Louis Beauséjour]

My understanding is that it's based on their review of the file for a specific year, and we look at the real savings that would be associated with those specific cases and the payments that are being made during the extended period.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do you know what year they did the calculations for?

[Louis Beauséjour]

I think it was 2006-2007.