Evidence of meeting #38 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sector.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
You also mentioned nature, but what did you mean exactly? Can you elaborate on that?
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
It's the type of work.
We're not trying to sell the mining industry as being for everyone. The industry does offer a number of different occupations. Some of those occupations involve work underground, and that work is not for everyone. Not many people grew up saying “When I grow up, I want to be a miner.”
Trying to communicate what the modern mining industry is today and what skill sets are required to work in that sector is a challenge.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you. Your time is up.
Mr. Butt, go ahead for five minutes.
Conservative
Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, gentlemen, for coming.
My first confession off the top is that I am no expert in the mining industry. I don't think there are any mining jobs in Mississauga—Streetsville, but I could be wrong.
I'm learning as we go, too.
Conservative
Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
That's because of Hazel McCallion, but that's another story.
I'm learning today too.
I'm one of those people who probably have that perception of mining as a bunch of guys going down in a hole and picking away and doing their bit. I want to ask you about how the industry has evolved, and whether with computerization, diagnostics, and all the kinds of very sophisticated equipment probably being used now in 21st century mining in Canada recruitment of qualified individuals is tougher because it's not just a case of a bunch of guys going a thousand feet below the earth in a mine and doing their bit. Do they really need a skill set now that includes significant computerization abilities and the ability to work very sophisticated pieces of equipment? Are you doing anything in particular so that if you do have a fairly skilled individual who doesn't have quite that skill level they could work for one of the companies in the mining industry to bring that level up to the point where they'd have the level of skill set needed to be a good employee within that sector?
Vice-President, Government Relations, Mining Association of Canada
That level of sophistication of the industry is kind of a double-edged sword.
Once people understand that we are quite sophisticated and technologically advanced, it adds a cool factor. There is a lot of very advanced technology. There are things like remote mining, in which you have equipment operated from the surface or at a great distance so that you're far removed from the risk. There are very advanced geo-scientific techniques. We have a lot of PhDs and master's grads working in the mining sector.
That's appealing, but it also poses a challenge, because there is not necessarily a surplus of those people around, particularly those with mining expertise.
In the past it was easy to tap into the general labour pool and provide a minimum amount of training. It was more a brawny sort of endeavour.
It is working in our favour when we can get the word out. It also means that in the post-secondary system, mining-related programs and programs for mining engineering tend to be among the most expensive to operate. The faculties are not huge. They're expensive to run. They're expensive to scale up. So there are challenges there.
There are also opportunities in terms of transitioning workers from other sectors. Other sectors have also evolved technologically, and people from them would be sort of 75% or 80% of the way there and would require only some top-up training. The mining industry has had some success in reaching out to laid-off forestry workers and topping off their skills and getting them to work. That's a great example, because they tend to be located in the same areas.
Getting back to the mobility challenge, even in areas that are economically depressed and that have high unemployment, if they are larger urban centres that are better served, we find it very challenging to get people to agree to relocate to a more remote community, even with the promise of employment and training.
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
If I can just add, the skill set is changing in the industry. The use of technology may be creating some barriers to attracting or recruiting people, but it's also opening up potential new sources of labour. When I graduated from high school, you needed to bench-press 180 pounds for the mining industry to give you a job. People would send you on—
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
They would give you conditional letters of offer. You would have to go to a gym and you would have to demonstrate that you could lift that amount of weight before they would even look at you.
That has changed. The industry now is being more open to women, people with disabilities, and other segments of the population that would allow for other sources of labour. That wasn't always the case. The use of tele-mining, robotics.... The days of operating a jackleg are not completely gone, but they're certainly becoming few and far between.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you for that, Mr. Butt.
We'll conclude with Mr. Cuzner, for five minutes.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
There's a great story about the guy who came in and got interviewed for the coal mines.
We had an opportunity to go down to the Miners' Museum coal mine when we were in Cape Breton. The young guy who came in and went through the interview was a big, strapping lad. After he left the room, the boys were talking, and they said, “I'm hearing that he's bad for the drinking and fighting.” The foreman said, “That'll be two less things we'll have to teach him.”
But we did have an opportunity to go underground in a coal mine in Glace Bay.
First of all, for the most part, is the industry 100% unionized, is it 75% unionized? What's the breakdown now with unionized and non-union?
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
It's about 25% today.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Would they be UMW guys, or would they be...? There are not a whole lot of trades--IBEW or international...?
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
There's certainly some of that, but it's mostly steelworkers, and communications, energy, and paperworkers, and CAW—Canadian Auto Workers. Then there are some very specific trade unions in Quebec as well.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Mining Association of Canada
There are a few sites here and there. UMWA, the United Mine Workers of America, are still around, but yes, it's the steelworkers, CAW, and CEP.
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
They're the three big ones.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Yes. United Mine Workers are not so much now.
When we looked at trades development, it wasn't uncommon to hire a barefaced miner—somebody to work in the pit—and then put him into an industrial apprenticeship program. He wouldn't be ready to write a Red Seal ticket for electrical, but he'd learn the electrical trade as it applies to what's required within a mine.
Does any of that go on within the industry now, or is that back some time ago?
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
No, that still happens. What we're trying to do is create a national recognition program for miners. Up until very recently there was none of that, nothing existed. There was no recognition whatsoever. If your employer or the mine closed, you left with nothing—no ticket, no paper.
Part of the work of the council is to create the first pan-Canadian certification program to allow an individual who wants to stay as a miner to still feel valued in the occupation and not feel like they need to move to a skilled trade and work to become an electrician or a millwright. To be honest, we're the first country to do this. We have interest now from about a half-dozen other countries that are looking to implement a certification program for miners, diamond drillers, and mineral process operators in their respective countries.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Is that right? A mechanic in the mine sometimes morphs into a pipefitter. As a machinist, he may be able to machine parts or small tool and die. That's interesting that you guys are moving.... Where is that now in the genesis?
Executive Director, Mining Industry Human Resources Council
We have been at it starting with the development of standards. We ran a pilot for the certification program in 2010. We started certifying workers in 2011. We now have about 15 mining companies that are certifying workers. We're doing about 20 certified miners per month now. We're hoping to increase that. We're about 250 miners certified today.