Evidence of meeting #58 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apprentices.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you for that.
Mr. Cleary, I know you have a whole slew of questions you would like to ask, but the time has run out.
We'll move to Mr. Daniel.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here.
The major issue seems to be about persuading some of these young people to get into apprenticeship programs. What else can we do to help? What can the federal government do to help motivate some of these people into considering these jobs?
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Electricity Human Resources Canada
In some instances, I don't think it's necessarily that they don't want to go into those jobs. I think you have to take a step back. They are not even aware of the types of careers that are out there. I know that as a young girl, I would never have dreamt that there were so many different types of apprenticeships in the electricity industry or in other industries. I think we need to take that step back.
We know that the parents are prime influencers. We know that the teachers are prime influencers, but a lot of the teachers themselves are not aware of the number of in-depth jobs available. We need to do a better job of educating the teachers so that they can talk to students and make them understand about the different types of jobs that are accessible to them.
9:35 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council
I'll answer, and then I'm going to depart, Mr. Daniel.
First, in the school system, I see math for people in the trades. In some provinces, they have created a math curriculum. Unfortunately, some might perceive it as second-best math, but actually, it isn't. It's really math for the trades so that when you go into trade school, you're better prepared. I think those types of structural things are important.
Mr. Butt, you have two children, ages nine and thirteen.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
9:35 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council
What every parent needs to do is ask their kids what trade they would like and what university degree they would like. If everybody started having aspirations to have a trade and a university degree, all of a sudden you would see change.
I have to bid you adieu. Thank you very much, folks.
November 27th, 2012 / 9:35 a.m.
President, Canadian Automotive Repair and Service (CARS) Council
I think there's a leadership role that can be taken. To Kelly's point about labour issues slowing productivity or there being challenges around that, I think we're experiencing that. I think there's a leadership role that needs to be taken to connect industry with the education training system. We can't assume that just having more information will help, because they won't know to reach for it. Teachers and educators don't know how to use it, but they are really excited when they see how those connections can be made.
A lot of them are trying to show the relevance of what they're teaching. They are trying to show the applicability. Students don't understand how they're going to use it. But by making those connections with the workplace, which introduces them to the value of various occupations, not just trades but all occupations, all of a sudden there's a better conversation happening. People are better able to make informed decisions when choosing careers.
9:35 a.m.
Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada
In my experience, when we're talking about people applying for apprenticeship jobs, it's not necessarily that there aren't applicants. A lot of the time there aren't the jobs. The negative that comes back from the young people who want to get into apprenticeships and can't find work is where I think there is the biggest disconnect.
I think Mr. Butt hit the nail on the head when he asked how we get the employers to hire more apprentices.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Is that true even though you're expecting to have another 45,000 people by 2016?
9:40 a.m.
Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada
Yes. People aren't being hired at those rates.
We just did a round of hiring for power line apprentices at Hydro One, which the union was involved in. We had 2,700 applicants for 64 positions. It's a regular occurrence to get those kinds of applications. There just aren't enough entry-level jobs for those 2,700 people to get into the trades.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
I'm getting confused. You have a requirement for 45,000 new employees, yet you don't have them now is what you're saying.
9:40 a.m.
Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada
Yes. How do you train them?
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Electricity Human Resources Canada
There's a long lead time with apprenticeships for the electricity industry specifically.
We're lucky in some regards insofar as the electricity industry has recognized this over the last 10 years. We went through a period in the late 1980s and 1990s where we stopped hiring apprentices altogether, and that has created huge difficulties. The industry has been working actively to address that over the last decade, as some of the examples that have been given illustrate, and that has resulted, to John's point, in our receiving quite a lot of applicants for some of the actual trades in the electricity piece.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you, Mr. Daniel. Your time is up.
We'll conclude with Mr. Cuzner.
Go ahead.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to start by wishing my friend and colleague, Mr. Butt, all the best on his conversation with his 13-year-old and 9-year-old daughters.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
The one I'd like to be a fly on the wall for is when he has that birds and bees conversation with them. That would be great television.
When an apprentice is going through the process and has to go back to school, after they have had some time in the field and go back to school, there is a disconnect with the employer. What we've heard from past witnesses is that a lot of the time the slowdown in receiving EI benefits is one of the reasons people are falling out of these programs. It's an interruption in family cash flow.
In 2004 cheques were being issued 80% of the time in 21 days. That was the standard. They were hitting that standard 80% of the time. They've stretched the standard to 28 days, and they're only hitting that 30% of the time now. We're seeing some Canadians going five, six, seven weeks without income, and so they are saying, “I can't pursue this electrical apprenticeship. I'm driving a truck now. I have to do something to feed my family.”
We're looking at specifics. What can we actually do? There is the lower piece that some of you have talked about, but then there's that fulfilment and when you have that many people in apprenticeship and with the high rate of non-completion, there has to be some stuff within that. We've attracted them to the idea. They have gotten comfortable with the idea that they want to be an apprentice, but because of the mechanics here, they are falling out of the program and not completing their apprenticeships.
Does it make any sense that the federal government—and we're looking at what the federal government can do—develop a specific program, maybe in partnership especially with the bigger companies? The bigger companies, such as Toronto Hydro, would continue to pay the person while they go back to study, and then they do the business afterwards with the federal government to recoup that money out of the EI fund or whatever it might be, for some kind of consistency in revenue for that household.
First of all, do you see it as a problem? What do you suggest as a possible solution?
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association
I'd like Ave to speak to this. Ave is more in touch with this than I would be.
9:40 a.m.
Vice-President, Organizational Effectiveness and Environment, Health & Safety Division, Toronto Hydro, Canadian Electricity Association
Thank you for your question.
As far as apprenticeships go, what we're trying to encourage is that college level diploma that helps them to make entry. Once they're in the apprenticeship program we do pay them. They're being paid. They're hired.
What we need to see is more awareness that the energy industry is a place for good jobs, and that these college programs are a viable career choice from a trades perspective, and that trades positions aren't seen as something of a lower career choice at the end of the day. These are highly skilled technical people. We actually pay their apprenticeship.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you very much, Ms. Lethbridge. The bigger companies now...the automotive, I would think, where there are smaller companies, it would be more possible.
Mr. Ives, do you have a comment?
9:45 a.m.
Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada
In our apprenticeships we have a mix of company trained and using the ministry and the colleges to do the work. Very much so, our apprentices are going to college for their eight-week or ten-week in-school training and they're not getting their first cheque until they're back at work after the course. It's a big problem.
The way you put it, I'd like to have it. We're going into negotiations next year, and we could use your help explaining to the employer that they should be paying these apprentices. Going forward, some sort of system like that for paying the apprentices definitely help because it is an extreme hardship on a lot of apprentices when they don't receive pay going forward.
