Evidence of meeting #58 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apprentices.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ave Lethbridge  Vice-President, Organizational Effectiveness and Environment, Health & Safety Division, Toronto Hydro, Canadian Electricity Association
Kelly Lendsay  President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council
Jennifer Steeves  President, Canadian Automotive Repair and Service (CARS) Council
Michelle Branigan  Executive Director, Electricity Human Resources Canada
Norm Fraser  Chair of the Board of Directors, Chief Operating Officer, Distribution and Customer Service, Hydro Ottawa, Electricity Human Resources Canada
John Ives  Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada
Jim R. Burpee  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association
Sarah Anson-Cartwright  Director, Skills Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Shabbir Hakim  Executive Director, Alberta Council of Turnaround Industry Maintenance Stakeholders and Construction Industry Stakeholders Association of Alberta, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Romeo Bellai  Member, President, Bellai Brothers Construction, Canadian Construction Association
Clerk of the Committee  Mrs. Isabelle Dumas

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

We have a number of presenters in the first hour this morning. It's going to be a bit difficult to get through. We'll have each of the presenters make their statements, and then we'll have rounds of questions from each party.

We have Kelly Lendsay, from the Aboriginal Human Resource Council. We have Jennifer Steeves, the president of the Canadian Automotive Repair and Service Council. We have representatives from Electricity Human Resources Canada and the Canadian Electricity Association.

I understand we have Ave appearing by video conference from Toronto. Could you introduce yourself?

8:45 a.m.

Ave Lethbridge Vice-President, Organizational Effectiveness and Environment, Health & Safety Division, Toronto Hydro, Canadian Electricity Association

Hi. I'm Ave Lethbridge, from Toronto Hydro.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much.

Then we'll start. Who is the first presenter?

8:45 a.m.

Kelly Lendsay President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council

Should we let ladies go first?

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Okay.

Jennifer, do you wish to present? Then we'll go from there.

November 27th, 2012 / 8:45 a.m.

Jennifer Steeves President, Canadian Automotive Repair and Service (CARS) Council

Thank you, Mr. Chair, co-chairs, and members.

I'm very pleased to have been invited to appear here today in relation to your study on economic opportunities for young apprentices. I will provide you with some context on the automotive repair and service industry.

“Performance Driven”, the 2009 labour market research report commissioned by CARS Council, included information regarding apprentices in the repair and service industry. Although the study is now a bit dated, I will provide you with some highlights that are relevant to your research initiative.

Regarding recruitment and retention of apprentices, 62% of employers had up to four apprentices and 31% of employers did not currently employ any apprentices. Of the firms who employ apprentices, 58% experienced revenue growth in 2008, and of those who do not employ apprentices, only 49% saw revenue growth that year.

At the time of the study, only 30% of firms who employed apprentices reported using government programs and tax incentives related to apprenticeship, and 9% did not know such incentives existed.

According to discussion group participants, firms that did not recognize the contribution that apprentices make, or that found them insufficiently job ready, were those who chose not to employ them.

The Canadian Apprenticeship Forum conducted some very useful research about the return on investment for skilled trades employers, and determined a benefit-cost ratio of $1.69 for automotive service technicians. The CARS Council has promoted this to industry employers in addition to the communication efforts of CAF.

On opportunities for apprentices, over 66,000 repair and service establishments employ an estimated 306,000 employees. The proportion of businesses earning $1 million or more in annual revenue jumped from 23% in 2005 to 33% in 2009. The cost of diagnostic equipment and the supply of qualified new hires are the barriers to growth and profitability most often cited as having an extreme effect. Nearly all sector employees work full time, an average of 42 hours per week.

The success of apprentices being able to complete their training and integrate to the workforce is impacted by their expectations of the job, the skills in demand, and their ability to continually upgrade their skills in response to new technologies.

Here are some points to consider:

One, current labour market data is needed so that young people are geared towards appropriate local opportunities. Note that the last labour market study for the automotive repair and service industry was conducted in 2009. Given the economic environment of the past few years, it is recommended that new data be collected for informed decision-making. Due to HRSDC's decision to eliminate infrastructure funding for sector councils, the CARS Council will not be in a position to undertake this work in the future on behalf of the repair and service industry.

Two, a thorough awareness and understanding of the current demands of industry occupations, new technologies, and the skills impact is needed. This information should be researched and updated at regular intervals and shared with the education and training system.

Three, up-to-date labour market data and technology information needs to be connected to the education system. This connection does not always happen automatically even if the information is available.

Four, employers and educators need to connect more at the local level. Educators often need assistance in showing more relevance to what is being taught in the classroom. Employers have the ability to show how learning is applied in a workplace setting, but the challenge is that they do not have time to do this. However, connecting educators to employers can help build more relevance to the students’ learning. Teachers are the experts at this and sometimes just need the opportunity. Students who see how their learning is applied can become more engaged and be better prepared when entering an apprenticeship.

Five, parents are a tough audience but are also the biggest influencer. The more messaging to this audience about the value of skilled trades people, the better.

Six, continued emphasis on the importance of essential skills as the foundation of all future learning is needed. There is an excellent example of how a post-secondary training program has integrated essential skills assessment and development to their motive power program and has raised awareness among employers in the community. Students are assessed and are provided opportunities to improve essential skills. Local employers request evidence of the students' essential skills when providing placements. This pull by employers provides incentive for the students to take more care to develop their essential skills, which prepares them better for lifelong learning once employed.

Seven, the Working in Canada website would be a natural fit for industry-related labour market data, skills requirements, links to skills assessments, and employers seeking apprentices. There are also good sites, such as www.apprenticesearch.com, that may be a consideration when further developing the WIC.

A national approach in leadership is worthwhile when examining economic opportunities for apprentices in undertaking approaches to connect young people to the skilled trades and those employers. Coordination of the above-mentioned items nationally is a worthwhile endeavour to support apprentices going forward.

I hope this information is helpful to your study. I will be pleased to answer questions.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much, Jennifer. That was within time and we appreciate that very much.

I think we'll hear from Kelly Lendsay next. Then we'll move to Electricity Human Resources Canada.

Please go ahead, Kelly.

8:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council

Kelly Lendsay

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm not going to give you a single statistic because you're going to hear a lot of statistics from all the speakers throughout this meeting.

I have to tell you, though, that a few years back, Ed, you were one of our speakers at Inclusion Works, our national recruitment fair where aboriginal grads from across Canada attend a live recruitment fair with employers. I always remember some of the youth coming up to me and saying, “ You know, these members of Parliament, they're really human. They really seem to care.” You can be assured, ladies and gentlemen, I do tell them that here at the House of Commons, you are very human.

Let me start with my conclusion. Aboriginal people have always had a proud tradition of work. If you look in the trades, from the iron workers through all the skilled trades, aboriginal people have always worked as apprentices and continue to fill a very important void.

I was in Australia a few years back. When you think about the attitudes toward trades, they have the University of Queensland and they also have the Queensland University of Technology. People do encourage their children to go to university to get professional degrees as well as to get degrees and certificates in the trades.

I was a member of the Canadian Apprenticeship Forum for 10 years. One of the best things we did at that time was an advertising campaign in cinemas and theatres. There were three messages, one pitched to parents, one pitched to youth, and one pitched to employers. It was marketing. It was about how to change parents' attitudes toward the trades. It showcased youth choosing apprenticeships, choosing trades as a career, and how to encourage employers to invest in apprenticeships.

When you think about skills on a national level, is it a provincial area or a national area? If we were in Alberta today, the people in Alberta, especially in the oil sands, care as much about the skills in Newfoundland as they do in Alberta. Why is that? There's a direct flight every day from St. John's, Newfoundland to the oil sands and on those flights are skilled workers. This is a national issue and it needs national leadership.

Our work is with employers. I want to talk, not about apprenticeship youth but about the employers. I'll tell you a story about a friend of mine, Joe Bova. Joe Bova and I sit on CORCAN's national advisory committee. Joe is one of those employers you'll never read about in the Globe and Mail. He runs a construction company. He's a very successful guy. Four years ago he was desperate for bricklayers and construction workers. He always was reluctant to get involved in bringing skilled workers from abroad, but he got involved in Manitoba and he went to Germany and brought back 13 families at a cost of $20,000 a piece.

For the record, I'm pro-immigration. Even though I work and advocate for aboriginal people and employers, we do need immigrants because we're in a net negative growth market in this country and we need to be a country that is seen as an employer of choice for immigrants.

Joe gets back and he tells me that somewhere along the line there's a disconnect. He said that he lives in a city, Winnipeg, that has a high native population and a high youth unemployment rate. He lives in a province where some of these reserves match third world conditions. Part of the problem is youth who have a sense of entitlement and a poor work ethic. In part, it's the federal government because they transfer responsibility to the provinces and when disasters have occurred, they have never looked back. The third, in part, is that our own employers and labour unions have relied too much on government and we're not doing a good enough job raising our own labour force.

Joe was approached by a native elder, a friend of his, who told him a young man had gotten his daughter pregnant and the young man needed a job. He asked Joe if he would give the young man a job. The young guy's name was Mike. Mike showed up at the job site, all 110 pounds of him, and Joe said he was going to give this kid a chance but he didn't think he would make it to the end of the day. Well, he did make it to the end of the day and six months later, Mike, the 110-pound kid, was still working, and now he wanted to get an apprenticeship. So Joe phoned up the labour union and they said, “Sorry, there's no space here for training”. He phoned up Red River College and was told, “Sorry, there's no space here”.

Joe was so frustrated that he couldn't find a spot for Mike to get his apprenticeship schooling that he finally phoned some cabinet ministers and the Department of Labour and they finally found Mike a spot in Thompson, Manitoba.

Joe's frustration is one which I think many employers feel. What Joe was expressing was that in his own backyard there are 100,000 Mikes. Well, ladies and gentlemen, what I think we need is 100,000 Joe Bovas. We need 100,000 employers who see aboriginal people as a workforce solution and are prepared to invest. We need public sector investing. We need private sector investing.

That's the work that I see ahead of us. We have opportunities to take the fastest growing labour force in this country.... They do see apprenticeships as a career opportunity. They can be a solution to many of the skills shortages we have, but it's going to take the cooperation of governments, the private sector, and aboriginal people to make it happen.

Joe Bova and I serve on CORCAN. You talk about putting people to work; we have another group of people we have to put to work. They're the offenders. Each year, between 7,000 and 9,000 of them are released. They need a second chance. We need employers who are going to step up for that. There are 20% of these people who are aboriginal, so we need employers who are going to step up. We need to take every untapped labour market pool and put the people to work.

Speaking of work, I can only stay with you until 9:30; I have meetings at 10. We're headquartered in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, but I'm in our nation's capital at least once or twice a month. I'm pleased to be here.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much for that, Kelly. We certainly will open up the rounds of questioning before you go.

Now we'll hear from Electricity Human Resources Canada. Michelle, go ahead.

8:55 a.m.

Michelle Branigan Executive Director, Electricity Human Resources Canada

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, honourable members, and ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today in relation to your study on economic opportunities for young apprentices.

I'm the executive director of Electricity Human Resources Canada, which was formerly the Electricity Sector Council. I met some of you around the table when we were called that.

Our mission is to strengthen the ability of the Canadian electricity industry to meet the current and future needs for a highly skilled, safety-focused, diverse, and productive workforce. We are the authoritative voice for human resources in the electricity sector.

I have with me today, our board chair and COO of Hydro Ottawa, Norm Fraser; as well as board of directors member, John Ives, staff officer at the Power Workers' Union. They can share their first-hand experiences with apprentices in the electricity industry.

To provide some very brief context for the Canadian electricity industry, our industry right now employs over 108,000 people. Most of them are highly skilled workers. Like other industrial sectors, we're facing the immediate challenge of an imminent departure of those skilled workers, as people take retirement. We also need to replace aging infrastructure. We're facing a double jeopardy, if you will.

9 a.m.

Norm Fraser Chair of the Board of Directors, Chief Operating Officer, Distribution and Customer Service, Hydro Ottawa, Electricity Human Resources Canada

Thank you, Michelle.

Our most recent labour market information study has concluded that our electricity sector will have to recruit almost 45,000 new workers, which is about half of the current workforce, by 2016. That's just over three years from now. We do not want to contemplate the impact of not having enough qualified staff to manage this essential industry. It's a destiny issue for us. The trades play a critical role in the makeup of the electricity workforce. Combined with engineering staff, these two groups represent almost half of the workforce.

Those of us in the sector understand the importance of increasing the appeal of apprenticeship programs to our Canadian youth. Our industry has a strong history of supporting licensing and certifications and building pathways for apprentices. We believe it is absolutely necessary to improve the transition from post-secondary training to the workplace.

As an employer, I have already seen how partnering with local education institutions to develop apprenticeship programs can be successful and how necessary it is for employers to be innovative in order to ensure workforce sustainability. In 2005, Hydro Ottawa looked around the province and saw very few new trained trades workers in the workforce. They were simply not there, so we invented our own apprenticeship program in-house. We started training, recognizing that it takes four years to train a qualified line maintainer, for example, and probably two years beyond that to be fully qualified. We had to start training well in advance of the wave of retirements. That was a very successful program, and it's now in its eighth year.

I talked about institutions. Recently we've gone into a partnership with Algonquin College. They have created a lines program, a hugely successful one. They've had to double their enrolment in the last year, just after the first year of training. We participate in the field training with Algonquin professors, which has been a very successful win-win circumstance for both the utility and the institution.

While we also recognize that registrations for apprenticeships are going up in some occupations, which is great news—they often do when we see the economy fluctuating—we still battle the perception that the trades do not offer a viable and well-respected career choice. Hopefully, that will change in the future.

I'll turn it over to John.

9 a.m.

John Ives Member, Board of Directors, Electricity Human Resources Canada

Thank you.

In our industry, we find that women are extremely under-represented. They average about 25% of our workforce, but only about 5% of those are in trades occupations. Understanding and addressing the barriers to entering and staying in the industry is going to be a key focus for us in the future, especially as it relates to women in the workplace. We're hoping to address those challenges over the coming years.

A couple of the things we've done through the Power Workers' Union, which I also represent, along with Electricity Human Resources Canada, is our TradeUp program. We actually enter schools and talk to students, specifically young women, about entering the trades. We have found that the most successful way of doing this is by getting women already in the trades to talk to these young women and to recruit them.

We still run into the same problems as other sectors. Completions are lagging. Apprentices are not qualifying. Sometimes they take up to eight to 10 years to complete their apprenticeships because of a lack of work and a lack of training.

New technology, changing market conditions, and career preferences have altered the path apprentices follow from registration to certification. There's a growing need for specialization that meets the needs of employers. Employers, we're finding, are generally trying to pigeonhole people into very specific jobs related to the trades, and apprentices are leaving prior to finishing their apprenticeships. These specializations are one reason for lower completion rates for our apprentices. They choose to end or delay the process once they have secured regular full-time work.

We also need to make a much more concentrated effort, everyone from employers to labour, educators, and government, not only to streamline the mobility issue for apprentices but to address other issues. With respect to the mobility issue for apprentices, once an apprentice is actually engaged in an apprenticeship, moving from employer to employer or province to province is very difficult. We do a fine job on the Red Seal program for the certified journeyperson, but it is not there for apprentices moving from province to province.

9:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Electricity Human Resources Canada

Michelle Branigan

Mr. Chair, in completion, thank you for the invitation today. We look forward to questions.

I will leave with the clerk a copy of the TradeUp referenced in John's part of the presentation. We've done something similar in B.C. for the youth and all the high school students out there. I'll leave that for you to have a look at later on.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much. We appreciate the presentation.

We'll conclude with the Canadian Electricity Association.

Mr. Burpee, you'll be presenting. I'm not sure if you'll share your time. I'll leave that up to you.

9:05 a.m.

Jim R. Burpee President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Electricity Association

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with Ave Lethbridge.

My name is Jim Burpee. I'm the president and CEO of the Canadian Electricity Association, CEA. We are the national voice of electricity in Canada and have been since 1891.

Across the country, our members provide electricity generation, transmission, and distribution services to industrial, commercial, residential, and institutional clients. We represent all industry stakeholders, including utility companies, large and small, energy traders, and representatives from the full electricity value chain including suppliers of equipment, technology, and services.

Your current study on young apprentices, and much of your recent work on labour shortages, is of great interest to our membership. The decisions and recommendations you make are important and will have impacts on our industry.

As is the case with most major employers in Canada today, and as you have no doubt heard repeatedly, the electricity sector is facing a shortage of skilled workers as a result of the imminent wave of baby boomer retirements, but what makes our industry unique, and our human resource challenges particularly acute, are additional labour market pressures that will require even more workers with many new and varied skill sets.

Most of Canada's electrical power grid was built over 25 years ago to serve a population of 20 million. Today, that population exceeds 34 million, people whose lifestyles are increasingly dependent on electrical devices.

As an industry, we are embarking on ambitious new projects, transformative projects, to bring electricity infrastructure in line with the needs of the 21st century.

According to the Conference Board of Canada, investment in the renewal of Canada's electricity infrastructure will result in an average of 156,000 jobs each year over the next 20 years. To put that into context, the 108,000 that Michelle and Norm mentioned, those are regular employees of the utilities. The 156,000 are in the construction trades, engineering, and all the support to do the capital investment. That's the capital program as well as the ongoing, whereas the 108,000 represents the ongoing operations and maintenance.

We're talking about construction jobs to build generation, transmission, and distribution infrastructure, jobs in management and finance, in applied science and engineering, and in sales and transportation. We're talking about jobs in every province and territory in the country.

The labour requirements to accommodate this investment in electricity infrastructure will exert additional pressure on an already tight labour market.

In addition to the infrastructure challenge, the electricity grid as envisioned by Edison is being turned on its head by the development of new smart grid technologies. Across the country and around the world, innovative people are coming up with great ideas.

Development of technologies relating to electric vehicle integration, electricity storage, renewable forms of generation, to name just a few, are characterized by their information-based applications that will require employee skill sets very different from those required to operate the electricity system most of us have known in our lifetimes.

This is a terrific time to be involved in the electricity sector, but we will need to train, recruit, and retain the highly skilled workers to turn the smart grid vision into reality.

I'll now pass it over to Ave Lethbridge.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Go ahead, Ms. Lethbridge.

9:10 a.m.

Vice-President, Organizational Effectiveness and Environment, Health & Safety Division, Toronto Hydro, Canadian Electricity Association

Ave Lethbridge

Thank you, Jim.

Good morning, committee members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today from Toronto.

My name is Ave Lethbridge. I'm the vice-president of human resources and environment, health and safety, at Toronto Hydro.

Toronto Hydro operates an electricity distribution system that delivers electricity to almost one million customers in the city of Toronto. We are one of the largest municipal electricity distribution companies in Canada and distribute approximately 18% of the electricity consumed in Ontario. We own and operate an asset worth $2.4 billion.

We have an opportunity today to discuss our apprentices and trade positions. At Toronto Hydro we have approximately 1,600 employees. These are comprised of skilled trades, engineers, and management professionals in general.

Our vision is to continuously maximize customer and stakeholder satisfaction by providing safe and reliable services in an environmentally responsible way.

The challenges faced by Canada's electricity sector today and in the future, as outlined by Jim, reflect many of the challenges we're facing at Toronto Hydro. In terms of infrastructure renewal, 2011 marked not only our 100th anniversary in service but the completion of the largest annual capital construction program in our history.

On the technology front, we are actively engaged in many of the emerging technologies that Jim mentioned, including the integration into the grid of strategies for electric vehicles and renewables such as solar.

I chair the Canadian Electricity Association human resources committee, a group of very senior human resource leaders across Canada and our CEA member community and companies. Our vision is to shape the future of our companies through innovative people strategies. Ensuring that governments are aware of our current and future HR requirements, both in our industry and our organizations is part of our mandate and is why we're eager to participate in your current study.

At Toronto Hydro over the next 10 years approximately 750 of our employees will be eligible for retirement. That's more than 40% of our current workforce. Many of our employees approaching retirement are highly skilled tradespeople who've acquired extensive knowledge about the complexities of our aging distribution system, including our very complex underground network. It takes almost five years as an apprentice to build the specialized skill sets necessary to perform the work on our distribution grid. As an organization, preparing for this transition requires an increased focus on and investment in recruitment selection and skills training programs and initiatives.

I'd like to highlight some of the initiatives we're undertaking as a company to increase awareness about careers in our industry and company, particularly for young people.

Faced with the challenge of renewing an aging workforce, Toronto Hydro has developed an outreach strategy to ensure we attract and retain top talent. In 2011 alone we participated in seven college and university career fairs and events. Overall we have hired and trained over 200 new trades employees and helped them successfully complete their four-year apprenticeship.

In terms of ensuring we have qualified workers to operate the distribution system of the future, we are collaborating with universities to develop innovative and technologically advanced solutions to modernize our distribution system.

We are also working with Georgian College's School of Engineering Technology to help shape the curriculum for the electrical engineering technician and technology programs. Toronto Hydro will invest over $750,000 with Georgian College over the next five years.

In 2011, in addition to our partnership with Georgian College, we collaborated with Ryerson University's Centre for Urban Energy, the University of Toronto, Humber College, Mohawk College, and York University.

An initiative that we are particularly proud of is the municipal utility trades apprenticeship program that is recognized by the Ontario Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities. We are one of three qualified trade schools in the province. We provide our graduates with trade-specific apprenticeship programs for power line technicians, certified power cable persons, a distribution systems technologist, leader technicians, and power systems controllers. This helps to ensure that the apprentices graduate with the necessary proficiencies to fulfill these positions at our utility.

Each program also includes a cooperative education component where students who work at Toronto Hydro gain practical experience working alongside our staff.

In 2011, Toronto Hydro hired 43 apprentices—12 certified power line persons, 13 certified power cable persons, 12 distribution systems technologists, and 6 power systems controllers.

In 2011, Toronto Hydro had almost 300 co-op placements to support the development of skilled professionals for the energy industry. Over half of those co-ops were from the engineering technician-technologist diploma program.

Our selection process and commitment to—

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Ms. Lethbridge, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'll need you to bring this to a close. If you have some material remaining, we will try to get it in through questioning. If you could try to wrap up, that would be great.

9:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Organizational Effectiveness and Environment, Health & Safety Division, Toronto Hydro, Canadian Electricity Association

Ave Lethbridge

Sure, I am about 30 seconds away.

While Toronto Hydro has demonstrated that there is much to do to address human resources challenges, there remains a need for support from the federal government. More specifically, steps need to be taken to ensure the adequate supply of candidates for our post-secondary institutions and programs. CEA members call on the federal government to take a greater role in raising awareness for career opportunities in the skilled trades.

A recent report on skilled trades notes that 68% of youth ages 13 to 18 said they would be unlikely to consider a career in skilled trades. Some 72% of the youth said their parents had not encouraged them to pursue a career in skilled trades, and 86% indicated that their guidance counsellors had not recommended skilled-trades options.

Mr. Chair, there's still work to be done.

Thank you for your invitation to appear today and for the opportunity to outline some of the challenges faced by the Canadian electricity sector.

I look forward to your questions.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We will start the first round of questioning with Madam Boutin-Sweet.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. My questions are for Mr. Lendsay.

In traditional aboriginal cultures, young people used to learn a great deal by observing their elders. I imagine that apprenticeship programs must be appropriate for aboriginal cultures. I expect that this would help them to develop competence in the trades, particularly.

I would like to know whether the programs are adapted to aboriginal culture and reality. If not, how could the federal government adapt certain programs to young aboriginals so as to ensure their success?

9:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council

Kelly Lendsay

I think there are many cultures where apprenticeship has been a proven way to learn, from the time that it meant learning to hunt and live off the land. Years ago in Alberta, we put more than 400 aboriginal people to work in a program funded by the provincial and federal governments. It was the Alberta apprenticeship program. It is no longer in existence. I remember there was a video done by an elder whose name was Gilbert.

Gilbert told a story about becoming an elder and how it took 15 years. He told of his journey, but he related the story to being an apprentice. I remember making a deal with the Alberta folks. They said they'd take some federal money to produce this video, but that it had to be shared across Canada. You don't need 50 videos. This demonstrates how we can take a project the federal government can support and share it across the country.

Next year, our organization, our social enterprise, will be 15 years old. We keep repeating the same projects across this country and calling them something different. We don't really do good knowledge transfer. We have interprovincial problems with labour. We can't even move wine, let alone people, across our borders.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

We can now.

9:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Aboriginal Human Resource Council

Kelly Lendsay

Can we now?

9:20 a.m.

An hon. member

They finally dealt with that one.