Human Resources Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. I'd like to thank everyone for attending.

The order for today will be to hear from the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development and the Minister of Labour. Pursuant to standing order 81(5), we'll be dealing with the supplementary estimates (B) for 2012-13. Votes 1b and 5b under Human Resources and Skills Development were referred to this committee.

We will also be dealing with the performance report for 2011-2012. Each of the ministers—and I see there is a good array of officials here as well—will present in the customary fashion, and then there will be questions from the parties.

With that, I would ask Minister Finley to proceed.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development]

Thank you kindly, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to appear before this committee to discuss the work of my department. As you know, HRSDC has a very broad mission. We interact with Canadians at every stage of their lives.

We also play a key role in ensuring Canada's continued economic success, competitiveness, and long-term prosperity.

Since July 2009, over 820,000 net new jobs have been created in Canada. Now, the hard numbers speak for themselves, but in addition to that, we have over 390,000 more Canadians at work now than compared to the best months we had before the recession. This is really tremendous and should not go unnoticed.

However, as I've said many times, we cannot rest on our laurels.

We're still dealing with high unemployment in some areas, and at the same time we have labour shortages in other areas, sometimes even where there is high unemployment. More acutely, where we're really feeling the pinch is in the mismatch that exists between the needs of employers and the skills and labour that are available to them.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce recently described the skills gap as, and I quote: “the major socio-economic challenge confronting this country”, and frankly, ladies and gentlemen, I agree with them.

The issue is about how to grow in light of an aging population of workers who are now starting to leave the workforce. We are sitting here competing globally for skills and for talent.

Things are only going to get worse if we don't do something about addressing the gap that exists in terms of skilling up our own people.

Let's be clear on something, though. Although we agree with the fact that we have a major issue on our hands in this country, I do not agree that it is the sole responsibility of the federal government to fix it; it can't, nor should it be. Our success will be dependent on the collective ability to be innovative, flexible, and willing to change.

So what are we doing at HRSDC to help? First, we're making changes to the employment insurance program to make it easier for unemployed Canadians to search for and find work. At its core, employment insurance is just that: an insurance program to support Canadians when they're out of work through no fault of their own.

With that support, there has always come the responsibility of being available and actively looking for work.

I've had the opportunity to discuss these changes with Canadians right across the country, and when I or one of my colleagues has that opportunity, it's clear that Canadians do understand that our government wants to make sure that they're better off working than not. They understand that we want to make sure that employers get the workers they need to run their businesses and they understand how important it is that Canadians right here at home always have first crack at job opportunities before a company can ever hire temporary foreign workers.

The changes to the EI program will help us achieve those goals. Think of the measure coming early next year to better connect Canadians with available jobs in their local areas.

The Working While on Claim pilot project also comes to mind. It allows people to keep more of what they earn, when they accept more work while on EI. We believe that these changes will make a difference, while ensuring that the program continues to support Canadians, as it always has, when they need it.

In addition to these changes comes our focus on training. Governments do play an important role in skills and training, no question. In fact, our government gives the provinces and territories $2.7 billion a year for the exact purpose of labour market and skills development programs, but it goes well beyond government at any level.

Partnership is key. Governments, the private sector, and education and training institutions all have a role to play in getting Canadians back to work, diversifying and strengthening our workforce and addressing the skills shortages.

The world has changed, and now there really is no such thing as an unskilled job. That's why my department supports a comprehensive suite of programs ranging from skills development to workplace literacy, from apprenticeship grants to financial aid programs, which have tremendously improved access to post-secondary education.

That takes me to one of my favourite topics, young Canadians, who are by far our greatest human resource in this country. After all, they are our future.

Youth unemployment, although better in Canada than in most countries around the world, sits at double the regular unemployment rate in this country. Why? Because they don't have the skills that employers need. Too many young people are caught in the vicious cycle of no job, no experience—no experience, no job.

That's why we've increased our investment in the national youth employment strategy.

Through Economic Action Plan 2012, we invested an additional $50 million into this strategy to connect young Canadians with jobs that are in high demand.

Our approach will match approximately 3,000 young Canadians with jobs in areas where there's a strong need for workers. It's important that we all take responsibility for guiding our young people and our future workforce.

Whether for skilled trades or other jobs in demand in other sectors, it's clear that Canadians of all ages need to have a better understanding of where the jobs are and what skills are required for them.

That's why in August I officially launched the new sectoral initiatives program. Under this program, critical labour market information will be gathered and made available through the Working in Canada website. Giving people better access to better information will enable employers, workers, and job seekers alike to make better decisions.

Ultimately, Mr. Chair, it comes down to doing things differently.

That leads me to another topic, and it's an exciting one—social finance.

Social finance is a new area for Canada. Earlier this month I launched a call for concepts to solicit ideas on social finance from both individuals and organizations. I wanted ideas on how we can shape future social policy in Canada or identify new partners. I wanted ideas about how we can get better results from our investment of taxpayers' dollars.

Let's be clear: this is not wholesale change. We're exploring at this stage, but this work speaks to exactly what I talked about at the beginning: the need to be creative, innovative, and willing to do things differently if we want or expect to get better results for Canadians.

Mr. Chair, as I conclude, these are just some of the initiatives under way, but they speak to my department's important role in delivering services to Canadians.

We will continue to be focused on these goals in a fiscally prudent way as we work to ensure that all Canadians have an opportunity to share in real results—job creation, economic growth, and long-term prosperity.

Thank you.

I'll now turn to my colleague.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, please go ahead.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Minister of Labour]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, it was only a short while ago that Minister Finley and I were here to talk about Bill C-44, the Helping Families in Need Act, and I'm delighted to be back again.

That legislation that we were talking about previously showed our government's commitment to the welfare of Canadian workers and their families. We believe that Canadians are entitled to be treated fairly on the job.

With that in mind, we foster good working conditions, constructive labour-management relations, and healthy, safe workplaces free from discrimination, because by doing all these things, we are making a vital contribution to Canada's prosperity and to our overall quality of life.

That said, we can't ignore that uncertain economic situation in which we are working today.

Some workers in our country are still vulnerable, and they are worried about the ability to provide for their families. We know that when Canadian workers were hit hard by the economic downturn—especially those employees whose employers went bankrupt, closed down, and did not pay their workers the money they were owed—Canadian workers did suffer.

That's why in 2008 our government introduced the wage earner protection program, or WEPP: because we wanted to make sure that the workers who were affected like this received timely compensation for their unpaid wages and their vacation pay.

We expanded the WEPP in 2009, and we included both unpaid severance and termination pay as well.

In 2011 we expanded again, to make sure that workers were covered in situations where a company attempted to restructure but was unsuccessful and ended in bankruptcy.

Overall, since the start of the program in 2008, more than $120 million has been paid to over 53,000 workers. Given the expansion of this program over the time, we are now adding $1.4 million annually in operating funds to ensure that we deliver to WEPP applicants the benefits they are entitled to when they need them most. Therefore, we're requesting additional funding through the supplementary estimates to fulfill this commitment.

We know that in uncertain times, workers suffer, businesses suffer, and indeed the whole country suffers. That's why our government remains focused on creating jobs, on long-term growth and prosperity, but in that, a crucial part is labour peace. We know that good labour relations help create a stable and a reliable environment in which businesses can thrive, but they also give workers the security that they need to be productive and to support their families.

The Federal Mediation Conciliation Service is a part of Labour Canada, and it really does do a remarkable job in supporting the stable, peaceful, and cooperative labour environment.

FMCS has a section for preventive mediation services. That service helps unions and management to build and maintain constructive working relationships that deal with difficult workplace issues as they arise, not necessarily at a point in time when a collective agreement is being bargained. To make this service available to more clients, we are committing half a million dollars in annual ongoing funding.

I want to make a point here on this issue. Despite the impression that may be created by media or by coverage of certain events, cooperative labour relations in Canada really are the norm. Strikes and lockouts are the exception. Indeed, in the past four years 94% of labour negotiations in the federally regulated private sector were settled without work stoppages when FMCS was involved.

Contributing to harmonious working relationships and therefore to labour stability is really only one aspect of the labour program's goals for federal workplaces. As minister, I firmly believe that a healthy and a safe and a fair workplace is a key element to Canada's formula for success. Indeed, I've called the workplace the engine room for the economy.

The workplace is important because where there's more morale, where there's ingenuity, where there's productivity, Canadian businesses are helped to compete with the best in the world, so we promote safe and healthy workplaces through both preventive education and reactive strategies. Most importantly, we encourage workers and employers to take an active role in ensuring the health and safety of their workplaces.

This past fall I visited China, and I'm really proud to say that Canada is recognized internationally for our expertise in workplace health and safety.

Lately, as well, we've been focusing on a different aspect of health and safety in the workplace: mental health.

Mental health in the workplace is a significant concern not only for businesses but also for workers and for families. Half a million people a day miss work because of mental health problems. That can translate into a loss of productivity of about between $33 and $50 billion annually. Quite frankly, this is something that we have to deal with.

That's why the Government of Canada provided $367,000 in funding to the Mental Health Commission of Canada to help develop a voluntary national standard for psychological health and safety in the workplace. My labour program provided the commission with technical expertise. The project is a really great partnership because it received funding from Bell Canada and the Great-West Life Centre for Mental Health in the Workplace.

What's really exciting about this is that it will be the first standard of its kind in the world. It really is an example of how governments and organizations can work together to help modernize workplace health and safety. We're working with businesses and we're working with unions. They were part of the psychological standard creation. With those two parties and with the help of the government, we are creating these dynamic workplaces where cooperation and fairness are the rule, workplaces where health and safety are integral parts of the culture, workplaces where workers and employers can contribute, innovate, and increase productivity for the benefit of all, including the general Canadian public.

Those are some ways that we in the labour program are helping Canadian businesses and families and continuing to strengthen our economy.

Mr. Chair, I hope this overview has been helpful and I'd be very pleased to answer any questions that you or the committee may have.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that wide-ranging overview.

Both ministers certainly have set out the view they have with respect to their current department's performance and where they hope to go.

We're going to move to the first round of questioning. We'll start with Ms. Charlton.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to both ministers for being here.

Like you, I very much enjoyed the time we shared here together with Bill C-44. Since you enjoy being here so much, I wonder if I could start off by asking whether you'd be willing to be here for two hours instead of just one hour, in the same spirit of cooperation that we showed during the debate on Bill C-44.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

They are scheduled here for an hour and we'll be dealing with that, but go ahead—

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I just figured that the ministers, if they have the time, might want to be here. Could you let them respond? I only have seven minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

No, it's five minutes.

If the ministers wish to respond they can, but you might want to go to your questioning, because the clock is running.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

All right, we will certainly do that in a hurry because, frankly, one hour with two ministers for two departments to deal with one of the ministries having the broadest mandate, as you rightly pointed out in your opening, just simply isn't enough for us to do due diligence, which is what the whole estimates process is about for the opposition parties. It's to actually hold the government to account.

Let me go quickly to questions, where perhaps we could just have a yes or no answer to keep us moving.

Ministers, would you commit this morning to providing the committee with the details of your government's austerity measures and how they will manifest themselves with respect to budget cuts, staff reductions, and impacts on services?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That is a very broad question. We're here to share with you whatever information from those programs is reflected in the estimates and we'd be happy to discuss those with you.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Ms. Raitt, would you comment?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I concur with Minister Finley's comments.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

As you know, the information I just asked for is exactly the information that the Parliamentary Budget Officer has asked for and is now taking the government to court over. Any information you could provide us that would expedite us getting access to that information would be very much appreciated.

Looking at what we know already, we know that EI eligibility has hit a 10-year low. For those who do still qualify for EI, we know that service is falling. Two-thirds of EI claims and 50% of CPP calls are not being answered within the department's own service standards and yet, Minister Raitt, in your opening comments you just said that you wanted to ensure timely compensation for Canadians. You referred to that in terms of WEPP workers, but of course people on EI are also impacted through no fault of their own.

Minister Finley, you had said publicly that if there were a need, you'd bring on more staff. Obviously the need is there, because you're not meeting your department's own service standards. Could you tell me how many new staff you're budgeting to bring on to deal with both EI issues and CPP issues?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Our goal is to be responsive and to provide payment and answer queries in a timely manner. The challenge is that there are seasonal variations, some of them pretty dramatic, particularly on the EI front. When we saw some surges last spring in terms of the number of EI applications, we did bring in extra staff. Sometimes we reallocate them from other parts of the EI operations; it varies with the circumstances. It doesn't necessarily mean that new people are brought on or that we budget ahead of time, because not all of these surges are predictable.

I am pleased to report to the committee, though, that because we brought in extra people in the spring and we've to some degree changed how we handle these responses to be more efficient, our processing times are now getting back in the range of the seasonal norms. Again, there are cycles throughout the year when demand rises or it falls significantly. We try to even things out so we can have predictability for the workforce who are there.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Minister, as you know, when you're on employment insurance or you're trying to access EI, every single day matters, because you're without any kind of income.

I believe the standard in the ministry with respect to EI appeals is that EI appeals will be heard within 30 days. It used to be that standard was met 50% of the time; now, it's being met less than 30% of the time. I don't think the 70% of people for whom that 30-day deadline isn't being met are going to be comforted by the fact that you're working toward some kind of seasonal average. We're talking about tens of thousands of appeals being heard.

I wonder if you could talk about your plans to create new staffing positions to deal with those appeals. Frankly, I'm really worried. You're creating a tribunal of 39 people to hear appeals that are right now being heard by hundreds, and already the standard isn't being met.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This is why it's so important, as we transition to the new tribunal in the new year, that we make sure we keep staff from the old system to clear out any backlog that exists. We want to make sure those cases are dealt with in a timely manner. Going forward, we're going to have specialized people dealing with these cases on a full-time basis. We anticipate that through a variety of ways we will have better consistency and more responsiveness.

One of the things that delays payment of EI is when employers or the employees do not submit complete forms. If there is information missing or it's wrong, or it's incompatible with information they previously submitted—

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

There's no more help at Service Canada centres for people filling out those forms.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Actually, there is. What we're doing—

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

You're asking people to go online.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt and be rude about it, but I do want to get my last question in as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Your time is up.

Minister, if you want to finish responding to that question, you can.

You could maybe start the second round with your question, if you like.

Go ahead and finish your response.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To add, we find that the processing speed and the turnaround in getting payments to claimants rises dramatically when both the employer and the employee file online. That system makes it possible to get things done faster and more accurately. That's why we're encouraging employers in particular to make sure they are filing electronically. It does speed up the process for everyone.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

We'll move now to Mr. Daniel, who might be sharing his time with Mr. McColeman. We'll see.

You have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I will be sharing my time with Mr. McColeman.

Thank you, Ministers, for being here.

Minister Finley, you touched on two things that are close to my heart, and those are the trades and young people.

Our committee is currently undertaking a study on opportunities for young people, with a focus on the skilled trades. I know our government has made significant investments in this area, and I was hoping you could elaborate a bit more on the outcomes of this funding. What are the real results that we are seeing for our young people?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We are very pleased to see that the results of some of the new programs that we brought in are enhanced.

As you're probably aware, there is a significant shortage of skilled tradespeople in this country. In fact, a few years ago I was invited to a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new skilled trades college. The ribbon-cutting was put off because they couldn't finish building the college because they couldn't get enough skilled tradespeople to do the work.

That's when we decided we really had to do something about this problem. We had already introduced the apprenticeship incentive grant for people going into the trades, but also for employers. So far, some 265,000 Canadians have taken advantage of that program. We brought in the completion program for apprentices a few years later, and over 80,000 people have claimed access to it. That's a good start.

Going beyond that, we know there are a number of young people who have challenges. I've mentioned, for example, the no experience, no job—no job, no experience cycle. That's why we have programs like Career Focus and Skills Link. In fact, in Budget 2012 we put an additional $50 million into helping these young people get over the barriers of no experience, particularly helping them get experience in the areas where there is high demand so they're likely to have a much more successful and stable career.

There have been a lot of very positive results, and that's not even starting to address the other things we've done through the Canada youth employment strategy, which includes the Canada summer jobs programs.

The pathways to education program is now helping some 10,000 students who might otherwise be at risk of dropping out of high school to complete high school and go on to post-secondary education. It provides them with the full wraparound supports that they need—not just financial, but the mentoring, the coaching, and all sorts of good stuff. We really believe our future workforce is our young people, and that's the future of our country.