Human Resources Committee on Dec. 6th, 2012

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

You made three references to Cape Breton in your testimony, Mr. Blakely. You have a Cape Bretoner sitting on the end, so it's a pretty good morning for the island.

Ms. Huziak, I want to commend you and recognize your reference to women training in non-traditional trades. You looped it in with the tragedy that took place 24 years ago. It was poignant. I just wanted to recognize that.

Mr. Bégin and Mr. Blakely, both of you made reference to the disconnect between the training and the interruption as one of the barriers to completing a trades training program, an apprenticeship. That's EI and the extended period of time, which has grown over the last number of years, for processing that first EI cheque. Could you just make a comment on that, Mr. Bégin, and then Mr. Blakely?

[Claude Bégin]

Indeed, I would say that right from the start, before a company proceeds to layoffs, it should have an opportunity to keep its employees and train them.

I think this is where employment insurance could come into play. We could have job-sharing. We should be able to reduce working hours and allow for EI to compensate for reduced hours of work due to training.

I think it is a tool, an important lever that employment insurance would give to companies. It would allow workers to remain with a company, to get access to resources, to complete their training or to learn new skills, all with the support of employment insurance.

There would no longer be a waiting period. The program could be far greater in scope than it actually is when it comes to job-sharing or time-sharing.

Allow me to digress, but it would seem to me that we are forgetting about an important segment of the population. A great deal is said about youth, but I think we are often forgetting about aboriginal youth. There should be specific programs to help them enter the labour market. They are ready to work. However, given their context, we need to make a special effort to support them. This is a source of young Canadians that need to get involved in the Canadian economy.

Thank you.

[Robert Blakely]

On the EI question, one of my sons went to trade school and he was a welder. My daughter went to a number of universities and is now a quality control technician, so she's an apprentice too. They go to training, and they get their cheques. After training's done, they rely on the Bank of Dad to pay their bills. Why can't we pre-approve people who are going to take training? I think Mr. Sharpe and someone else who spoke to you said the EI problem was the number one anecdotal problem for people taking training. Let's eliminate that problem. Get them pre-approved.

Speaking of young aboriginal people, Mr. Bégin, you know in Alberta we had a program that was shared by the federal government, the provincial government, and industry, called Trade Winds To Success. We put nearly 600 aboriginal kids through it and had a 95% success rate, putting them into trades jobs where they're working their way through. The federal government withdrew its funding. We found a way to fund it through the trades. But if you're going to be successful with aboriginal kids, they need to get a start. They need to understand they're not going to a place like Algonquin College, with 87 million people in it. When they come from a small community, they need to understand that they've got some supports, that they can get some support from elders and from an institution that cares more about them as a person than as a number. If we don't do that, young aboriginal people are going to get left behind.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Does CLC want to make a comment on the EI issue?

[John Hugh Edwards]

We're absolutely in agreement with the building trades on this one. Of course, pre-approval is required for EI. What we're looking at—I think everybody at this table understands—is a process of apprenticeship that is on-the-job training interspersed with time in the classroom. In those classroom periods, the apprentices need support. We know what the schedule looks like; we know when they will be off the job site and into the classroom. This is set out in the terms and conditions of the apprenticeship. So a pre-approval of EI would seem to be a simple thing to handle in the system.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, how are we doing for time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Your time is up. Those were some good questions, and good answers.

We appreciate having the panel present. You've got some very good ideas and suggestions. We'll certainly take them into consideration.

We'll suspend for five minutes so we can install the second panel.

[Robert Blakely]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

If we can start shortly, I'd appreciate it. We'll call the meeting to order.

We have a new panel with us today. For the Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada, we have Henry Reiser, director, Yukon and British Columbia; and dean, faculty of trades and technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University. We'll hear from you first.

Then we have with us Nobina Robinson, chief executive officer, Polytechnics Canada, along with the director, Ken Doyle, and we'll be hearing from you.

We also have with us Anna Toneguzzo, from government relations and policy research of the Association of Canadian Community Colleges, who will present.

We've added to our panel representatives from the Mohawk College. They weren't on our panel, but they've travelled a distance to be here and so we'll certainly welcome and hear from Ali Ghiassi and Piero Cherubini.

I see we've moved the order a bit. Why don't we present in the way everybody is seated? We'll start with Mohawk College. They weren't scheduled to be here. We will obviously shorten our questioning and we may not get to the last round, but I thought it was appropriate that we do this.

I've spoken to Mr. Cuzner, who graciously agreed to give up his round if necessary to make sure that happened.

[Ali Ghiassi, Vice-President and General Counsel, Public Affairs, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the committee for your indulgence this morning.

My name is Ali Ghiassi. I'm here today with my colleague, Piero Cherubini.

I will be providing you with some introductory remarks about Mohawk College and the strategic direction that we're moving towards, and then I will turn it over to Mr. Cherubini, who will talk about some of the great things we're doing to address skills shortages in the communities that we serve.

Mohawk College is a large college in Ontario, with approximately 13,000 full-time students and 5,000 apprentices, with two campuses in Hamilton, one in Brantford, and another in Stoney Creek, Ontario. We provide primarily certificate and diploma programs in a wide variety of areas including business, engineering technology, health sciences, community and urban studies, media and entertainment, and skilled trades and apprenticeship.

The essence of Mohawk's vision is the notion that our graduates are future-ready. Our commitment to give our students the skills they will require to successfully meet the challenges of the 21st century global economy is something we take very seriously. We work very closely with our industry partners to ensure that our graduates have the skills necessary to be employable from day one, and our efforts are paying off. For two years running now, our students have ranked Mohawk the number one rated Ontario college in the greater Toronto and Hamilton area.

As a provincial crown agency, Mohawk College is regulated by the Ontario Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities. In a recent submission to the ministry about the future strategic direction of Mohawk, we proposed an institutional mandate that will focus the college into areas of health, technology, and applied research. At Mohawk, we are proposing to lead in regionalization by creating a centre of excellence. We would like to become Ontario's first specialized institute for health and technology. Both areas are key drivers of our regional economy and long-standing strengths of our college.

We have an impressive track record of working with the federal government in the areas of applied research and commercialization, and we hope the government will continue to support us in the pursuit of our mandate.

Now I would like to turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Cherubini.

[Piero Cherubini, Dean, Business, Skilled Trades and Apprenticeship, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology]

Good morning.

As Ali mentioned, one of Mohawk's strengths is in its delivery of technology, skilled trades, and apprenticeship programs. In the year 2000, Mohawk developed and still delivers a two-year technician program, in which we integrated the apprenticeship program so that students, upon graduation, have completed their two-year technician diploma and completed all levels of the apprenticeship program. During their co-op placement we register these students as apprentices, so upon graduation they have completed an additional 16 months towards their apprenticeship certification.

We started working on this program in the late 1990s and launched it in 2000, because industry told us that grade 12 graduates were no longer prepared to handle the new technology they were going to face in the workplace. We heard clearly that the days of hiring grade 12 graduates to start a traditional apprenticeship program were gone, and that the employers in this sector needed people who could hit the ground running, so to speak, with advanced skills that could not be delivered as part of an existing high school program. As part of this pilot, we established a community-based committee made up of employers, union associations, and our college. This committee actually became the sponsoring agent to register the students as apprentices while they were out on their co-op placements.

What a great win-win this is for both the student and the employer. The employer has the opportunity to see the student in a co-op placement before making a full-time job offer, and the graduate has skills far in advance of those of a high school graduate who would be starting a career as an apprentice.

Another advantage to the employer and the apprentice is that once the apprentices are hired full-time, they no longer have to leave the workplace for the traditional eight or ten weeks of block training.

If we are considering other advantages, we can keep in mind that the traditional eight-week blocks of apprenticeship training continue to be supported by the federal government by way of EI payments and other supports for the apprentice while they're in school. In this model, the graduates have completed all the in-school training, so they will not have to leave the workplace to attend further academic training, and therefore EI support for the traditional apprenticeship program is eliminated.

We believe this model can be replicated across the country to help deal with current skills shortages. However, I am suggesting today that we can take this model and extend it to assist those displaced workers and help them re-engage with the workforce and fill some of these high-skilled jobs. We can use existing curriculum from the two-year program and deliver it in an intensive model that might better suit older workers who are seeking rapid re-employment and who may not be in a position to spend over two years in a college setting. We would suggest a compressed 12-month model, without breaks, that would better suit older workers.

At Mohawk, we have a lot of experience dealing with displaced workers. In our experience, if you take some time up front and offer some foundational learning in math and literacy, these students become engaged and high-functioning college graduates. They bring life skills and learning that can be integrated into their learning programs. I believe we can take this community-based committee model to engage employers, market opportunity to displaced workers, and find that match between displaced workers and employers not only in our region and province, but across the country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We'll now move to Ms. Robinson or Mr. Doyle, however they decide.

Go ahead.

[Nobina Robinson, Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada]

Good day everyone. Thank you very much for having invited us to appear today.

It's very nice to be here again. We were here in March talking about the skills gap, and now we're talking about something even more focused than that.

I'm going to ask Ken Doyle to take over for Polytechnics Canada. I do want to share with the committee good news today, that we now have 10 members at Polytechnics Canada, with the joining of the Saskatchewan Institute of Applied Science and Technology. Why is that relevant? Because they are a leader in trades training in Saskatchewan. They have demonstrated their commitment to applied education and to the advanced training of highly qualified skilled people, which is what Polytechnics Canada tries to focus on.

It's my pleasure to introduce Ken Doyle, our director of policy. He has devoted over two years of in-depth study and analysis to the conundrum of apprenticeship completion. I encourage you to listen to his action-oriented ideas for improving our shortfall in trained trades workers.

[Ken Doyle, Director, Policy, Polytechnics Canada]

Good morning.

A recent New York Times article by Thomas Friedman explored how welders use math and science every day. For example, they have to use math when computing angles or understanding metallurgy, not to mention when figuring out how different gases, pressures, and temperatures have to be combined. As Friedman states, welding is now a STEM job, that is, a job that requires knowledge of science, technology, engineering, and math. We can all agree that programs targeted at boosting STEM attainment and research excellence in Canada do not consider welders, electricians, or carpenters as their target audience.

The main barrier faced by young apprentices is that parents, guidance counsellors, and government programs do not value the skilled trades the same way they value university and college programs. The federal government can play a leadership role in changing that behaviour, and Canada’s colleges and polytechnics stand ready to assist.

I’m here today on behalf of Polytechnics Canada, an association of Canada's 10 leading publicly funded colleges and polytechnics. Last year, over 40,000 apprentice students attended our 10 member institutions. We monitor emerging enrolment and dropout trends, as well as current market wages for both apprentices and journeypersons. We develop and deliver innovative instruction methods such as pre-apprenticeship training and dual credential programs. We also deliver online learning and simulated work experience. As soon as an apprentice sets foot on one of our campuses, we consider him a student.

Now, I understand that the committee is studying the barriers faced by young apprentices, of which there are many, but my remarks will also focus on barriers faced by mature apprentices. This is because the average age of entry to apprenticeship is 26 years old. The average time to completion is five and a half years. For carpenters and electricians, it's seven, meaning that if they aren’t mature students when they enter their program, they are by the time they complete. Government programs must confront this reality: most people are registering as apprentices as a second or third try at a career.

I would like to focus my remarks on two elements in the committee’s study: completion rates and federal apprenticeship-related programs.

While the completion rate is alarmingly low at 50%, and has been for decades, even worse is the actual number of tradespeople being certified every year. Let's compare it to completion in post-secondary education. In total over the last 11 years, Canada has graduated 600,000 students from social and behavioural sciences programs as well as 540,000 students from humanities programs at universities and colleges. Over the same period, Canada has only certified 26,000 plumbers and 15,000 welders. Stated another way, for every 40 students we graduate from the social sciences program, we certify one welder.

This is a serious problem, given the needs of tomorrow's labour market in the economy. The apprenticeship training model requires a set ratio of journeypersons to oversee the training of apprentices. The majority of the current supply of jouneypersons will retire in the next decade. Without enough new or existing journeypersons working in the trades, who will oversee the training of the next generation of apprentices? Young apprentices, mature apprentices, entrepreneurial apprentices, those in high-cost remote areas, those in high-wage, high-demand trades—all face unique barriers. Each requires support tailored to his particular situation. One size does not fit all.

We are urging the federal government to review and modernize apprenticeship support policies to ensure that more apprentices complete their programs. We've already provided Minister Finley with a suite of nine actionable ideas. I would like to highlight three of them for you today: first, ensure that contractors on crown procurement and maintenance contracts are registering and training apprentices; second, provide a financial incentive to employers of record when an apprentice gets his or her certificate of qualification in a Red Seal trade; third, direct support from labour market agreements to increase the number of pre-apprenticeship training programs at colleges and polytechnics targeting at-risk youth and poorly integrated new entrants.

Apprentices are working toward a career in a skilled trade, not just a job. Since apprentices are considered employees instead of learners, they're not eligible for the same government financial support programs offered to university and college students, and the apprenticeship support programs that do exist are simply inadequate. Youth wishing to pursue an apprenticeship, including college and university graduates, often have no applied skills experience and have trouble finding employers to register them as apprentices. The lack of exposure to workshops at home or shop classes in school poses a significant entry barrier for high school graduates who would like to pursue a career in the skilled trades but cannot convince an employer to take them on.

The answer is pre-apprenticeship training programs that provide introductory training to the trade at a college or polytechnic. They would make the students more attractive to potential employers, who would then be willing to sponsor their training. Mature apprentices, on the other hand, have often worked in the trades for years, and have decided to formally pursue their certification as a master craftsperson.

Unlike other post-secondary students, mature apprentices receive virtually no financial assistance despite typically facing entrenched monthly financial obligations. Multiple studies have shown the most common reason for non-completion of apprentices is financial pressure.

The time has come for apprentices to be valued equally with post-secondary students—and supported as such. In 2012, if addressing looming skills shortages and increasing apprenticeship completion rates is a public policy concern, Canada must provide financial supports to apprentices beyond EI and taxable grants.

As we did with the brain drain of the 1990s, perhaps the time has come for a similar term that acknowledges the wider implications of the drain the Canadian economy will experience over the next decade if we do not see more apprentices through to completion and get them plugged into the building of infrastructure that is required by an innovative and productive economy.

If we were to ask Thomas Friedman, he would probably say that skilled trades workers are the new knowledge workers.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We'll now move to Anna Toneguzzo.

[Anna Toneguzzo, Manager, Government Relations and Policy Research, Public Policy, Association of Canadian Community Colleges]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

We appreciate the opportunity to provide input to the committee's study.

ACCC's 130 member colleges, institutes, polytechnics, and university colleges, hereafter referred to as colleges, are significant providers of in-class training for apprentices. Our presentation focuses on the role of colleges and how we can work together to enhance apprenticeship opportunities.

More must be done to valorize trades occupations. Rather than “tradespeople”, we use the term “trades professionals”. We are collaborating with Canadian and international partners to change perceptions and increase recognition of the advanced skills required for trades professions. The Canadian Apprenticeship Forum and Skills Canada have done excellent work through research and the promotion of trades professions. The careersintrades.ca website should be promoted more widely to youth, parents, and guidance counsellors.

Trades programs must be made accessible for disadvantaged and aboriginal youth. A 2012 Statistics Canada study found there are 906,000 youth age 15 to 29 who are neither employed nor in education, or NEET as some may have heard.

These youth were hit hardest during the recession and will remain vulnerable should the economy decline once again. Aboriginal youth are a key part of the solution to addressing skills shortages. For example, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada reports that in the next 10 years the natural resources sector will need to fill approximately 400,000 new jobs, while the same number of aboriginal youth will be entering the labour market.

Colleges offer supportive and inclusive learning environments, flexible programming, and wraparound support services that foster student success. Through college pre-trades or pre-apprenticeship programs, youth can learn about different trades professions over the course of an academic year.

For youth who may not have the high school diploma to qualify for these programs, colleges offer laddering opportunities through upgrading and essential skills programs. There is a need for enhanced funding to support participation in these programs—for example, through the labour market development agreements, conditions to those agreements, and the aboriginal skills and employment training strategy.

Employer engagement is key to increasing apprenticeship opportunities. A major barrier for potential apprentices is that they cannot find employers to sponsor them. Many colleges are assisting students in pre-trades programs to find employer sponsors. There is a need for more and improved incentives for employers to hire apprentices.

We must ensure apprentices have the financial support they need. ACCC members report that the lag in payment of employment insurance for apprentices during in-class training is a major barrier to completion. When apprentices are not paid during the in-class training, many drop out or do not return for the next level. The Government of Canada must fast-track EI claims for apprentices or introduce a mechanism that would provide bridge funding.

The Government of Canada apprenticeship completion grant does provide an incentive. However, this grant should be treated like other post-secondary grants, bursaries, and scholarships and be tax exempt.

We must ensure registrants in pre-trades programs are aware they can apply for Canada study grants and loans. For the most part, these programs are post-secondary level and, having a duration of one academic year, they meet the CSLP eligibility requirements. Aboriginal post-secondary funding and training support must recognize trades programs as eligible.

Apprentices need improved mobility options. The Red Seal program allows for the recognition of qualifications. However, apprentices moving from one jurisdiction to another and sometimes even from one employer to another often hit barriers and cannot have their hours and technical training levels recognized. We must find a way to standardize apprenticeship levels across jurisdictions, to create pathways that are more efficient.

Prior learning assessment and recognition services offered by colleges could be used more efficiently to facilitate the mobility of apprentices. PLAR can be costly to deliver. Institutions and learners would benefit from increased support for PLAR assessments.

There is a need for investments in college trades training infrastructure. The Government of Canada knowledge infrastructure program supported much-needed job creation during the recession and delivered 246 projects that expanded capacity at colleges. Among these, 31 were specifically for the construction of trades facilities.

The KIP investments made a difference but fell short of demand. Due to space and equipment limitations, colleges have to wait-list students interested in trades programs, while employers are saying they cannot find enough people with trades qualifications. The results of a 2012 survey of Canadian employers by the ManpowerGroup indicates skilled trades professions are the most difficult positions to fill. Further federal investment in college infrastructure would build on the legacy of KIP to allow Canada to meet the demand for advanced skills. Colleges would also benefit from increased support to upgrade equipment in trades and apprenticeship facilities.

To sum up, we need to valorize trades professions, increase access for disadvantaged and aboriginal youth, improve incentives for employers to hire apprentices, ensure apprentices have the financial supports and the mobility options they need to reach certification, and invest in college infrastructure and equipment to ensure colleges have the capacity to respond.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that.

I guess we'll conclude with Mr. Reiser. Go ahead.

[Henry Reiser, Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada]

I'm Henry Reiser, and I'm representing the Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada. We are the educational leaders in trades apprenticeship training in the country. I'm going to speak to many of the issues that have been raised by every speaker.

The first is the lack of apprenticeships for grads of pre-apprenticeship programs. In British Columbia, for example, we have ACE-IT programs and foundation programs. In the ACE-IT program, students at risk can get dual credits, complete their high school diploma, and get trade recognition for level one. Foundation programs are simply pre-apprenticeship programs.

The problem we're having right now is that there is only a 24% completion rate in British Columbia, as an example. We need to promote and increase the apprenticeship training tax credit to the employers. I met yesterday with the vice-president of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters Association. We discussed precisely this issue of access to pre-apprenticeship graduates, and the point was raised that small and medium-sized enterprises simply lack the revenues to train. They find it too high a financial risk for them to take on apprentices, so they prefer to go down the street and hire certified workers. There's also a strategy that should be used to work with CAF on promoting trades and encourage employers to indenture apprentices.

It's important that government take a leadership role in identifying the strategic importance of a skilled workforce. The impact of temporary foreign workers on Canadian youth and their ability to find apprenticeship placements has a very negative effect. We do not have a shortage of people, we have a shortage of skilled workers. It appears that business and industry are looking to satisfy the skilled-worker demand with trained foreign workers rather than investing in Canadians. This tactic does not address a sustainable apprenticeship model looking forward.

A second matter of primary importance is the whole issue of funding. As has been mentioned before, many apprentices cannot afford to complete the in-school component of their trades training simply because of the delay in collecting their EI payments. We need to overhaul the EI strategy for apprentices. We need to remind everybody that apprentices are excused from their normal work practices, and this funding is to pay them simply to attend classes. We need to remove any waiting period, and we need to simplify the application process. My son is a third-year sheet metal apprentice and has been unable to collect his EI twice, because of the complexities of the process. Many apprentices who have not received their funding—either at all or long after the training period—leave the process in frustration and simply don't complete.

The third issue is the mobility of apprentices. We need to come up with a national strategy. The work is not necessarily available in the region where the apprentices live, and they have to relocate to the west, for example, as has been mentioned on numerous occasions. We need to align the content of the levels to ensure mobility, and we need to work with the directors of apprenticeship to coordinate this activity. This is a leadership opportunity for the federal government, which should possibly subsidize as well the relocation costs for apprentices to travel. That is a very high burden on the young and makes it very difficult.

In general, the government has an opportunity here to provide leadership and direction for apprenticeship training within the country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that. We appreciate all your comments.

We'll start the first round of questioning with Madam Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being here today.

I am going to come back to a point that Ms. Toneguzzo raised and that was raised by two witnesses who appeared during the first part of the meeting. In Canada, it is within the aboriginal population that we see the greatest demographic growth. Many apprenticeships are available in areas with large aboriginal populations. However, aboriginal people are underemployed and underrepresented in apprenticeship programs. You already talked about obstacles and programs that could be adapted. This morning, Mr. Bégin and Mr. Blakely said that programs needed to be adapted for aboriginal people.

Mrs. Toneguzzo, I would like to hear your comments on this subject. Do you think it would be appropriate to consult aboriginal groups to find out how programs could be better adapted to the reality of young aboriginal people?

[Anna Toneguzzo]

Colleges already work a lot with aboriginal communities, especially to offer them programs in the trades. As my colleague Ken Doyle mentioned, once apprentices go to college, they are considered students. They therefore have access to all of the institution's services. In the case of aboriginal people, colleges provide very inclusive services, for example services for elders and places to meet. Apprentices who go to college are welcomed.

Some colleges and institutes now have mobile trades training trailers. These big trucks go to aboriginal communities, where people can take trades training on site. Aboriginal communities told colleges that it was very important for them to receive training in their community, so that their young people didn't always have to travel.

I haven't talked about it, but in the report we submitted to the committee, I included the example of Sault College, in northern Ontario. It established the Aboriginal Apprenticeship Centre to help aboriginal youth and adults who want to be apprentices and work in a trade. The example is described in our report. It could be helpful.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Regarding the mobile training you talked about, another witness told us that the tools were expensive. Going to offer this type of training to aboriginal people, including in remote areas, seems like a good idea, but it requires financial support.

[Anna Toneguzzo]

The trades trailers are equipped. They include all of the tools that are necessary for the training. However, all apprentices must have their own tools once they are hired by an employer. I know it is possible to obtain grants and loans for that.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

My second question is about women.

Last Tuesday, representatives from the Centre for the Study of Living Standards told us that in 20 years, the number of women in trades had increased, but that it was mainly in traditionally female areas, for example hairdressing.

How could we attract women to other types of trades? The question is for all of you.