Human Resources Committee on April 18th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

A quick response would be appreciated.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

With respect to creating successful partnerships to encourage and aid your clients or patients to get into the workforce, what do you think the key success factors are to that partnership-building? Where have you been the most successful? What types of partners have you been the most successful with? This will aid us in where we should be targeting. Are you more successful with a certain type of firm? Maybe they're in consulting, manufacturing, or service provision. We should be focused on that area so we can make sure that an additional number of individuals with disabilities are employed. What's your best recipe for success?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Do you want to answer that briefly, Ms. Zack?

[Elisse Zack]

I'll be very brief.

There is definitely need for more research in this area, but jobs that allow for a lot of flexibility, that allow people to perhaps work from home if they need to or if there is a shared pool of people so there can be people to fill in for other people, jobs that, depending on the particular illness....

The other recipe for success is that large businesses and large organizations tend to be able to accommodate people with episodic illnesses more easily because they have more people to share the work. If we think about it as work rather than jobs, it helps us understand that. One of the problems, though, for small organizations is that the impact of one person being away is a lot greater than in a large organization. So if we can start with federally regulated businesses, because they have a requirement....

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for your intervention.

We'll move to Mr. Cuzner. Go ahead.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks to the witnesses today for their testimony.

Dr. Eckerle Curwood, could you expand a little more on the housing stuff? I share your opinion that it's an even greater challenge in the community where you and Mr. Levo deal with it, in your reality. It's tougher to have them attached to the workforce without some kind of secure and stable housing support. You referred to unintended barriers. Could you expand on that a little? With government programs it's sometimes not good form to have unintended consequences or to create other unintended outcomes.

[Dr. Susan Eckerle Curwood]

With regard specifically to housing, what we heard from a number of participants in our study was that there were unintended barriers created due to the nature of rent subsidy programs. For instance, someone who was living in rent geared to income housing and who experienced a remission of symptoms or an improvement in ability to work and was able to either take on a job or to take on more hours and earn more income would then have his or her rent reassessed; their rent would increase. And because those assessments happen every three months, if at some point in the interim the person experienced a recurrence of their illness, had to back off their hours, had to withdraw from the workforce, and they found themselves not able to get their rent reassessed, they would find themselves in danger of losing their housing.

I would say this is a big example of an unintended barrier.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Ms. Yates, your comments on behalf of the group you represent were certainly glowing in terms of the actions taken by the government. We've had other witnesses who have shared with us the concern over what has taken place with OAS. When you're engaged in the workforce, there's a great deal of inconsistency in the stability of work opportunity, so you find a greater challenge in your ability to save for the future, your ability to provide for yourself, and those types of things. I'm sure the people you represent find a greater challenge in doing that.

Again, I would think that increasing the eligibility for OAS to 67 would have caused some concern for the people you represent. Is that not your experience?

[Elisse Zack]

To date, yes. In any discussions we've had, yes, there has been some concern. There is also the similar concern with private insurance, which is not the jurisdiction of the people in this room, but it is a similar issue. As they've raised the retirement age or taken away the retirement age, many long-term disability programs don't allow somebody to collect past the age of 65, even if they're able to work past 65 and they may still be getting sick after the age of 65.

Yes, the OAS is an issue. It hasn't been one of the big areas we've been discussing yet. In our work specifically, in our other work with people with HIV and related co-morbidities of HIV, we've heard this many times for people who have not been able to save enough money to retire with any kind of income security at all.

Thank you for raising that. It is definitely something we've heard about but haven't yet pursued to any great extent.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much.

We appreciate your presenting. One of the comments made was that everyone has a role to play, and that's for sure. Increasing awareness is very important. I appreciate that 27 underlying conditions pose some challenges, even when you're trying to be flexible in drafting something up.

I appreciate your comments and for taking the time to appear before this committee.

With that, we'll have a very brief adjournment and start with our second panel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I call the meeting to order and ask members to take their seats as we start this.

I see most of you have your earpiece on. It will be valuable if you require translation, and also to hear the questioners.

I'd like to welcome you to this committee, which is studying and exploring employment opportunities for persons with disabilities.

We're happy to have with us today Mathew Wilson from the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters Association.

We also have representatives from Brantford Volkswagen with us—Gregg Moore and Jeannette Leigh—and a representative from Tim Hortons, Jill Ramseyer, is here.

We'll hear from each of you representing your organizations and then we'll have questions and answers.

Mr. Wilson, go ahead.

[Mathew Wilson, Vice-President, National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters]

Thank you very much, and good afternoon. Thanks for having me back again.

I am pleased to be here today on behalf of the 10,000 members of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters to discuss Canada's labour market and explore employment opportunities for people with disabilities.

By way of background, more than 85% of CME members are small and medium-sized enterprises representing every industrial sector, every export sector, and from all regions of the country. Our mandate is to promote the competitiveness of Canadian manufacturers and the success of Canada’s goods and services exporters in markets around the world.

CME is also the chair of the Canadian Manufacturing Coalition, a collection of over 50 business associations who speak together about the critical issues that affect Canada's manufacturing economy. Last year, CME and our colleagues in the Canadian Manufacturing Coalition conducted our biannual management issues survey, which received 650 responses from companies with over 2,000 operations across the country. The survey was focused on identifying the major challenges being faced by companies, what their biggest concerns were, and what was restricting their growth in Canada and abroad.

The results were crystal clear: one of the largest concerns to the competitive landscape and economic growth of Canada is the size and strength of Canada’s labour force, today and in the near future. In fact, this survey also showed that nearly 50% of Canadian companies were facing skills shortages today, and due to these shortages, almost one-third of companies are considering relocating operations to jurisdictions outside of Canada. Due to the continuing demographics shift, the number of job vacancies is expected to increase over the next five years.

The economic consequences for Canada will be significant if these challenges are not addressed. This is why CME and our members have been working closely with the government and have been very supportive of the government's agenda to strengthen the domestic labour pool through improved training programs and reforming the EI system. We have also been working closely to strengthen the quality and skill level of international labour to ensure it is matched with the needs of companies through reforms to the immigration system and the temporary foreign worker program.

However, while these reforms are important, there is still so much that Canada can and should be doing to address our labour shortages, especially through engaging our most underemployed segments of the population, mainly aboriginals, youth, and persons with disabilities.

CME has been a long-time advocate and champion of inclusion strategies for all these segments of society because the full participation of these groups is essential to our long-term economic success. We actively participated in, and supported, the panel on labour market opportunities for persons with disabilities and their report, “Rethinking DisAbility in the Private Sector”.

As that report clearly points out, among the biggest challenges employers face is education and understanding the opportunities of integrating persons with disabilities into the workforce, the skill sets these employees bring, and the potential benefits companies can achieve from their full inclusion at all levels of the company.

This is something that CME has recognized and took action on through an initiative called Business Takes Action, or BTA. Between 2008 and 2012, CME partnered with the Ontario government to form this network to support workplace inclusion for people with disabilities and to educate employers. BTA focused on promoting disability inclusion at work, and it became a centre for expertise for best practices and enabling legislation in Ontario.

Over its five years, BTA delivered over 155 workshops promoting and championing workplace inclusion strategies that reached over 7,500 people across the province. It actively engaged with over 550 employers—companies like Tim Hortons, which is here today, and IBM. BTA and CME also published several guides to help educate companies on the benefits of hiring persons with disabilities and provided guidance on how to integrate these employees into the workforce. These education guides and technical manuals are guides that CME still use today to promote inclusion strategies with our members in other companies.

And while the work of the expert panel, CME, and many others is important and has made some strides, much more needs to be done if we are going to tackle the existing labour shortages and support long-term economic growth. Education and information will be critical. Industry needs to work more closely with governments, labour groups, and others to continue to actively promote and support inclusion strategies. Actions like BTA which focused on education and information sharing, should be restarted and supported by governments at all levels and expanded across the country.

I thank you again for inviting CME to participate today, and I look forward to the discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We will now move to Ms. Ramseyer.

Go ahead.

[Jill Ramseyer, Manager, Health and Wellness, Oakville Head Office, Tim Hortons Inc.]

Thank you very much for this opportunity to be involved in such an important initiative.

My name is Jill Ramseyer. I work for Tim Hortons' head office in Oakville, Ontario. In case you're not familiar with us, we're the largest quick-service chain in Canada—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jill Ramseyer]

—specializing in fresh coffee, baked goods, and homestyle lunches.

Currently, there are over 3,400 locations across Canada, and we have 800 locations in the United States as well. A lot of people don't realize we have that many there. We employ thousands of people throughout our network of corporate offices, distribution centres, and franchise restaurants.

I work in human resources. I'm the manager of health and wellness. While I'm not directly responsible for hiring, my team actively manages workplace accommodation and return to work for existing employees who have become disabled from either an illness or an injury. We are very proactive with return-to-work plans and accommodations for current employees, and we would like to become more proactive and successful with respect to hiring people with disabilities. I'd love to sit here and tell you that we've been really great at hiring people with disabilities, but sadly this is not the case. This lack of success is not because of negative experiences or lack of motivation on our part; it's mainly due to lack of awareness. To be perfectly honest, you don't know what you don't know. I suspect it is the same for a lot of other employers.

I have three main concepts to raise today that we feel are important with respect to hiring people with disabilities and improving results among employers: lack of awareness, subsidies, and employer champions. Throughout my commentary I'm also going to refer to the business case for hiring people with disabilities, which is a critical theme for employers and weaves throughout all of our key points.

From an employer perspective, there is definitely a lack of awareness on the business case for hiring people with disabilities. Employers are simply not aware of how many skilled people with disabilities are actively job searching—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Excuse me for a moment.

What you say has to be interpreted. It's becoming a little difficult, so if you could slow down just a little bit, that would be better for the interpreters.

Go ahead.

[Jill Ramseyer]

Absolutely, yes.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jill Ramseyer]

Yes. Too much coffee.

This is a lost opportunity for us as an employer, as we are limiting our pool of qualified candidates without even realizing it. We know that a diverse workforce is healthy for business. We go to great lengths to recruit Canadians, and this pool of talented candidates would just add to our recruitment efforts.

That leads to my next point, which is about finding these valuable resources. Many employers do not know where to start if they want to find people with disabilities who are searching for jobs, especially if the job searchers don't apply through traditional channels. If they don't come through the regular application channels, then we're missing a huge opportunity without even knowing it.

There are many great agencies and community partners in existence. This is actually quite confusing for employers, who have to determine which to use for what and in which province. Employers need more information on how community partners and agencies work and on where to start. They also need to understand that hiring people with disabilities is good for business and that working with the right agency is not about placing a warm body into a position to fill a quota, but about ensuring that the applicant has the right skill set and is the right fit for the position, just as in any hiring situation. A centralized source of information regarding community partners in Canada would be very helpful for employers.

Another issue, particularly for smaller employers without human resources expertise, is lack of awareness or ignorance regarding what should and should not be asked during the interview process, or as part of “on-boarding”, pertaining to a disability. Employers don't want to cross the line regarding private medical information and don't realize that they can talk openly about accommodations and functional abilities information. Employers often don't understand that the focus should be on what the individual can do and not on what the individual cannot do. Some clarity on this as it specifically relates to hiring people with disabilities, perhaps a guide or just more information in general, would be very helpful for employers.

I'm going to speak very briefly about incentives. As an organization, we believe wage subsidies have an overall negative effect on hiring people with disabilities. We feel they give the impression that the work done by people with disabilities is of less value, which in turn has a negative impact upon employer perceptions because of differential treatment. This goes against the core principles of integration and equality of opportunity as currently outlined in the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act, 2005.

What could really be beneficial for employers and employees is subsidies for employee training, education, and accommodation needs. There's often a need for specialized or additional training and accommodation for employees with disabilities. Making employers aware of any assistance that is available would be key for success in this area.

My last point is to highlight the need for employer champions.

Employers listen to other employers. If the government were to formally support the concept of employer champions, we think it would be beneficial to highlight successes and take away some of the fear and ignorance. Employer champions could provide sessions or information to their peers, meaning other employers. Sessions, workshops, even testimonials could be given by employers who hire people with disabilities to discuss the business case and the successes experienced from hiring people with disabilities.

Information provided by employer champions should also dispel the myths about employees with disabilities, such as myths about higher absenteeism rates, more accidents, and higher accommodations costs. Employers and business owners are very busy with day-to-day operations but are always interested in something that would benefit their organization, especially when it is related to the bottom line. Employers need to know that hiring people with disabilities is good for their business.

This is being done already, both formally and informally, by exceptional employers such as Mark Wafer, who I'm proud to say is part of our Tim Hortons family—he's one of our restaurant owners—and Randy Lewis of Walgreens. Both of these trailblazers provide success stories and how-to information regarding how and why hiring people with disabilities is beneficial to business. Both are internationally recognized.

A more formalized approach to this with support from the government would be beneficial and would go a long way toward highlighting this issue. It would improve business results, and this will ultimately affect the economy in a positive way.

That concludes my comments. Thank you again for your time and consideration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much. We heard from the previous panel too that having employer champions and speaking to employers was a good way to proceed.

We'll now move to the next panel and we will hear from Mr. Moore and Ms. Leigh.

Ms. Leigh, go ahead.

[Jeannette Leigh, Co-Owner, Brantford Volkswagen]

Thank you for having us here today. It's a real pleasure and honour.

I'll definitely be speaking from much less high a level, because we are the employer who does in fact hire a disabled adult, and we actually are....

I'll start with my speech so that I don't mess it all up, because otherwise I'll get going. I have to read.

I'm Jeannette Leigh. I'm here with my business partner, Gregg Moore. We are co-owners of a Volkswagen dealership in Brantford, Ontario. We have a total of 27 employees, so we're small.

We employ a young man named Norman who has been with us for three years as of March. He works three days a week with us. Norman is responsible for cleaning and tidying all areas that our customers see, plus our offices, lunchroom, technician change room, etc.

Gregg learned at a Rotary meeting about our local agency, L.Tara Hooper and Associates, who assist in employment placement for persons with disabilities. Actually it was Mark, who owns those several Tim Hortons, who was speaking. Gregg came home after the meeting, and we both loved the idea and pursued it immediately in an effort to find a solution to our five years of unsatisfactory results with various night cleaning companies at our dealership.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Could we ask you too to slow up a little? The interpreters are having trouble keeping up, so slow up a bit, please.