Evidence of meeting #78 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
It varies totally from province to province and from community to community. The duration of the project varies too, according to the needs.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
They are asking for a three-year agreement. But each year, it has to be renegotiated. They get no indexed increase and they are given no assurance in advance that the project will be renewed.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Are you looking at a renewal after 2014?
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I am looking at the federal funding.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
After 2014?
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I do not see how the need is going to go away in the next three years.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That is what the government is going to look at next year. Given that the program comes to an end on March 31, 2014, information is going to be gathered so that it can be studied and used to support any decision about the future of the program.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Thank you.
There is something else that I find odd. Are there any negotiations or discussions about the fact that certain pressures keep coming up for at least a decade, if not two? For older people, new technologies are an example. Some of these programs have to focus on problems that are going to keep coming back. Having to adapt to new technologies at 50 or 60 years of age, for example. The pace of new technology is not going to slow down in the next decade; it is going to speed up.
Why are resources not provided to deal with those problems? Resources could be assessed in terms of the problems and provinces could be guaranteed a presence for a good number of years in the name of social action.
Conservative
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Budget 2013 contained an announcement of quite a major reform in transfers to the provinces. At the moment, the federal government pays for most of the training provided by the provinces. That will continue, but there will be an increased role for employers in deciding the training that is going to be offered.
I see the question about the kind of training necessary to allow workers to meet the challenges and to move into existing jobs with existing technology as part of the discussion and negotiation that will take place with the provinces. We have to make sure that the training is better focused. That reform, which will be implemented in 2014, will allow employers to have more influence. That will certainly help to meet the specific need of having people trained for the technology of the jobs that are already there.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Do you really think that a SME has $5,000...?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Your time is up, Mr. Lapointe. We concluded with that response.
We'll move to Mr. Daniel.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, folks, for being here.
I want to dig down a little more in terms of the issues and challenges for older persons and their employment opportunities.
Has the department done any work looking at the statistics of how many people age 55 to 64 years are unskilled, tradespeople, qualified, extremely qualified, etc., to see where the opportunities lie for each of these groups?
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The department uses statistics mostly from Statistics Canada for this area. We do have a good breakdown of skill levels by individual, by age group. We use this information that is provided to us by Statistics Canada. This information is publicly available and helps guide the improvement of our programs and consideration for new programs.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Is there one particular group that is the largest, for example, tradespeople, or unskilled people, that you're looking at specifically to see how we can actually get them back into the workforce?
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
When it comes to older workers, we have programs that finance the training done by provinces.
We have the TIOW, the program that my colleagues talked about, which is targeted to older workers. Within the program there's a flexibility to partner with provinces and address specific challenges that a group of workers may be facing. If it has to do with a group of workers who were displaced due to a plant closure, for example, this will be targeted to the exact, specific needs of that group.
The answer is yes, we have very general programs that apply to all the workforce, including older workers, through financing from the provinces, and we have targeted programs like the TIOW that will deal specifically with the issues at hand.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
I was trying to dig down and find out if there was any specific group that is the largest group of unemployed older workers.
Is it mostly tradespeople who are being laid off in that age group, or is it unskilled workers? Are your programs, therefore, targeted specifically to help that group?
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The program we have for older workers is a general program. It's targeted to older workers, but it's for all older workers.
When it comes to statistics about the characteristics of the older workers who may be unemployed, looking at my notes I see I do have a lot of statistics. But in order to be helpful to the committee, what I can say is that we know that in 2012, 11.3% of the unemployed among older adults, people age 55 to 64, were long-term unemployed. I think that points to an issue. When you become unemployed, that's where the problem starts, and a number of those will remain unemployed for a long period of time.
The unemployed older workers, on average, will spend 29 weeks unemployed, which is way above the average for Canadians in general. We find that a good share of those who lose their jobs do so due to a displacement, for instance, a plant closure, bankruptcy, or a layoff. Those people who are hit hard by something that they didn't see coming will be vulnerable. They need to redirect their efforts to find a job, and sometimes they need to upgrade their skills.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Have you come across any organizations that deliberately lay off their people just before they're 55?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
I wonder, Ms. Demers, if you have a point to make.
If you wish, go ahead.
Senior Director, Economic Policy Directorate, Labour Market Analysis, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
In all the consultations I've been involved in, this was not evident to me in any of the discussions that we've had with employers and employees.
Director, Employment Programs and Partnerships, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Just to add, I can talk about the profile of those who come to the targeted initiative for older worker program.
In terms of their profile, we know that 30% of them do not have a high school diploma. Most of them are low skilled. Fifty per cent of them were unemployed for more than 12 months, so long-term unemployed.
It's usually a last resort for those who come. They are low-skilled and have been unemployed for a very long time. Generally, because of the nature of the program, being in smaller communities, these people have worked in more traditional sectors which are in decline, resource-based sectors. They have occupied the same job for many years and have not had the opportunity to develop a more diversified skill set, to adapt and transition to different types of occupations.
That's what we hear in terms of their characteristics.
Conservative