Human Resources Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You indicated that the Province of Newfoundland was taking that money and applying it to its debt.

[Serge Buy]

What I'm saying, sir, is that every provincial government is facing difficult times right now. There are pressures from public institutions not having the budgets they should have, because the government has to tighten its belt a little bit. What's the best way to basically say that the training dollars they were to apply to the private sector should be, potentially, training dollars applied to the public sector?

Far be it from me to try to attack the public sector. What I tried to say in my presentation is that it's a matter of choice. If people want to go to the private—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

To square the circle, you may want to clarify the record. That's a fairly strong accusation to say that the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is applying money assigned through the social transfer and the education transfer to its debt.

[Serge Buy]

What I'm saying, sir, exactly, is that the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador may not be funding, through their own dollars, their public institutions to the same extent, because they are having financial pressures. They are taking money from the social transfers, potentially, to support other programs. I'm exactly saying what I've just said now, and I'm standing by that statement, yes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

They're paying down their debt with their social transfers.

[Serge Buy]

I'm saying that they've made budget decisions to take money that would have funded other issues—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

They are using money from their social transfers. Well, listen, if you want to stand by that, that's great.

After you guys do the triage on the skills assessment, is it the college's role to offer advice and try to find seats for those who need the training? Do you provide those services?

[Serge Buy]

Absolutely.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Do you also help in trying to sort of manoeuvre and work with some of the government programs? Do you also do that? I mean the internship programs or whatever might be available to them out there.

[Serge Buy]

Some of our members do a fantastic job helping people find training, find jobs, and find internship positions. That's the great majority of our members.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That would vary from member to member.

[Serge Buy]

Yes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I think you said that social workers have a very complex role to play, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think over the last 10 to 15 years, probably even more, as challenges to become full members of society and productive members of society become more complex, there is a greater burden on professional social workers in this country.

Help me through this, because I don't know. We don't have a great deal of immigration in my community. By and large, if there's a large group of new Canadians in a particular community, do provincial agencies go out and try to seek people from within that community? Would they advertise specifically in, for example, a Tamil community? Would they go out and actively recruit Tamil social workers from the community to work with that community? Is that very common?

[Claude Leblond]

Yes, absolutely. I think it would be very helpful to have more social workers from the different communities. That would be an additional contribution. They could teach Canadian social workers about their communities and help them to better understand the social phenomena that people are confronted with when they come to Canada from abroad. We very much need to better understand certain things. In the case of the current Shafia trial, we need to understand what could have happened.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Leblond.

We'll move on to Mr. Butt for the final five minutes.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

I'm quite interested in the career college side of things.

I will often get people coming into my constituency office.... I represent a riding just outside of Toronto, in the city of Mississauga. It's a very multicultural riding, with many new Canadians. They'll come into my office and show me their certificate or their degree, or whatever, from their country of origin and then will complain that they can't get hired in Canada.

So from the career college side, you folks will meet with these people. You'll find out that they're 80% of the way there, we'll say, and that they need to take these three courses. You'll certify that they've taken the three courses. They'll take their degree from their country of origin and your certificate, put them together, and go to one of these regulatory bodies that will issue the licence for them to actually work in Canada, whichever province that happens to be. That's basically the role of your members, to do that and get them off to the races so that they can get hired in that profession in Canada?

[Serge Buy]

Absolutely. We do the assessment and we look at what is needed to bridge the gap. Then we try to provide them with the training, making sure they qualify in every possible way with the requirements of the professional body.

The huge difference is that we'll do it efficiently. We'll do it quickly, as well. Instead of waiting for three years, being in school, which most of these newcomers can't afford.... They have a family to feed; they cannot be three years in school. We'll provide this in a very compressed period of time, which by the way is not supported by the federal government because it doesn't meet the 60-week requirement for the Canada student grant program.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That was going to be my next question. How is the tuition typically paid? You're saying that candidates like these are not eligible for the Canada student grant program. Are they paying for it mainly out of their own pockets? Is there other funding there?

One of the things we may want to look at as a committee and potentially make as a recommendation is what role we can play in providing some assistance to people so that they can take these courses to get their skills to a certain level whereby they're recognized in Canada, and they can work.

[Serge Buy]

That is a fantastic question, and we're really hoping you will act in terms of making some recommendations on that front.

Most of those people have to get loans. It's as simple as that. And the Canada student loan program somewhat supports that process.

What concerns me is that we're all here saying that we have a problem, that we have a shortage of skilled trades, and we actually have ways to get people to quickly practise their skills and use their training. But we're saying to them, please do not attend a career college, because that will get you there quickly. Make sure you go for a two-, three-, four-, or five-year degree somewhere else, where you will spend the next number of years doing this, because we will not support you with the Canada student grant program. In my mind, this is wrong. In the minds of most Canadians, when explained, it is wrong. Your government thinks it's wrong, as well. But I think it needs to be implemented.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Do I still have some more time, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

If you wish to use it.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Yes. I'll go fairly quickly here.

I think you had mentioned that nursing was one of the areas. What are some of the other general areas in which your various colleges are providing these programs? We often hear about the foreign-trained doctor who's driving a taxicab. You hear these anecdotal stories--the nurse who's working as a waitress and really shouldn't be; she should be a nurse. So are there other areas? Is it all skilled trades? Is it professions? Is it both? In what kinds of areas are you helping out people?

[Serge Buy]

It's both, from the IT sector to the health care sector, from pharmacy assistants to pipefitters.

What you will not see in career colleges is a three-year degree in anthropology. I don't know how many anthropologists we need in Canada. I don't think we need too many. The Canadian government will support your going for training in anthropology, but they will not support a five-month degree that will get you to bridge the gap. And this is our concern.

You see us in IT, in personal support worker services, in some health care professions, in some sectors of social work as well, in a number of sectors. You see us in different sectors of the economy, of the social network. Absolutely.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

Your time is up. We thank you for your insightful presentation.

We're going to suspend for a few moments for our next panel to come forward.