Human Resources Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You'll have to make that answer very brief, if you could.

[Serge Buy]

I'll make it extremely brief.

Yes, absolutely, I think it's important to do that. But I do believe that when you're putting in a foreign credential recognition process, make sure that you involve all educational institutions in order to make sure that you're getting the best results in a quick and efficient manner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Mr. Leblond, do you want to answer that?

[Claude Leblond]

It's not only about Canada's economic development; it's also a matter of looking after people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

We'll move on to Ms. Perreault. Go ahead, please.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Good afternoon. My questions are for Mr. Leblond.

I'd like to come back to the effects of the shortage you referred to previously. I personally know some social workers who practice their profession in my riding. They recently told me that the number of children they have to meet with on a weekly basis has doubled in recent years.

To what extent is the shortage of social workers being felt at this time? Is the situation pretty well the same in every province and territory?

[Claude Leblond]

In practical terms, it is felt through the current problems with recruitment. Depending on the region, the province or the territory, institutions and organizations are having trouble recruiting social workers. They are also having trouble meeting overall demand in the communities.

Yet the shortage is only starting to make its effects felt. At the present time, we are seeing that the demand for social workers is growing all across the country. The shortage is going to occur at a time when, in addition to increased demand associated with a larger population, people's socio-economic problems will begin to be felt. In Quebec, it's starting in 2013 in particular that the shortage will be felt.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

In order to work in Canada, what is the process for an immigrant arriving here with foreign credentials?

My second question is related to the first one. On average, how much time does it take to complete the foreign qualification recognition process?

[Claude Leblond]

The time it takes may be fairly short if the individual has all the necessary information on file, including a degree or diploma from a recognized university and the extent to which the training that person has received is equivalent to the training given here in Canada.

At the present time, the process is based on comparing the content which leads to a degree.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

I have another question for you.

Earlier, you talked about educational training, in terms of it being equivalent to our Bachelor's degree. However, once someone has begun to practice the profession, is any assessment done, after a certain period of time, to determine whether he or she is performing adequately?

Do employers wanting to hire foreign social workers face significant obstacles or irritants that may prevent them from meeting the considerable need for social worker services in Quebec at this time?

[Claude Leblond]

I'd say that the biggest problem is not the initial training. Sometimes there has been inadequate practical training to a certain extent, but the biggest issue for immigrants whose training is recognized is the fact that they have no work experience in Canada. Also, social services in Canada, as in the United States or anywhere else in the world, differ from place to place. So, their acculturation to problems experienced here, to the needs of the people they deal with and to ways of responding to them is more difficult. That is why we are proposing paid practicums to allow people to gain work experience in Canada by delivering social services, but in accordance with Canadian law.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

If I understood you correctly earlier, you were saying that the Agreement on Internal Trade allows workers to be subject to regulations.

Does that mean that it is now easier for social workers to move from one province to the other?

[Claude Leblond]

Yes, it is easier, in the sense that this is now allowed on the basis of a license. We agreed that there would be no additional requirements such as, for example, a six-month practicum in a given province. The license received in another province is now recognized.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

What could be done to cut back the average time required to secure that recognition?

[Claude Leblond]

Are you talking about people who come here with a foreign degree?

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Yes.

[Claude Leblond]

Well, I suggest that you continue to support our actions in favour of establishing a pan-Canadian competency framework and common standards that can be used everywhere to review and assess foreign diplomas. Also, you can help us to become better known internationally, so that we can attract people and facilitate these processes.

Reskilling will have to be made available. That will require cooperation among training communities, whether they are public or private. There will also need to be paid practicums so that people can acquire minimal work experience in Canada that they can use on the job market.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Leblond; your time is well up.

We will move to Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, it's great to have you here today.

One of the thoughts I had was to do with a linkage I made when I was in the constituency about a week ago. There's a mining operation that is looking for people, so I suggested going to the local college to try to link up with the college and see if they could work in the programs and partner.

I direct my first question to Mr. Buy. Is that an option, where you could link into various sectors with oil and gas, mining, health, and link up with those sectors and focus on getting the training done, even credentially, but also perhaps see some financial support from some of those private sectors, for instance?

[Serge Buy]

I think that's a very good question, sir.

We do it already. The private sector is way ahead of the government. The private sector has recognized on a number of occasions that they're facing shortages in skilled trades. They've gone to private colleges to help them because they know we're more flexible than maybe some of our colleagues in the public sector. I gave the example of Atlantic College in Newfoundland, in the oil sector. They're doing training onsite. For example, electricians will be trained onsite with the company that's hiring them in order to bridge the gap for the recognition of their credentials.

We already offer that service, and we do partner in a number of regions. In Ontario we have a number of colleges, such as Herzing College here in Ottawa and in Toronto. As well, a number of our members partner with private companies to finalize and bridge that little gap that stops a newcomer to Canada from being able to get to that stage where they can practise in the trade they've been trained in, in their country.

In terms of whether or not that can be funded by private companies, certainly private companies are putting some of their resources to help some of the people they're looking for. They're doing it themselves because the government is lagging a little bit behind. We're hoping to see a change in behaviour from the government as well. The solution is not always to take public money, put it in public coffers, then to recirculate it. I know recycling is a great word, but recycling money within the public sector is not always the solution. On occasion some of the best ideas have been found in the private sector. We're ahead on this.

The answer is yes, we are partnering with private companies, and they are putting their own money on occasion into the training. My concern, however, is why would we ask the private sector to put their money when some government programs exist to fund this? The government is still thinking they will do it for the public sector only. The private companies are saying they can't wait for this. So let's get the government to change its perspective on this.

Sorry for the long answer.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I appreciate the answer.

Just to follow up on that, we had a couple of witnesses with us on Tuesday, one from Toronto, one from Vancouver, and they were telling us they have intern programs at the City of Vancouver and the City of Toronto to help those with foreign credentials to get into the workforce to meet their needs. Could you make some statements on whether that would be an obvious thing for provincial governments to get involved in? Are they already involved?

[Serge Buy]

Provincial governments are involved in some internship programs. We're noticing that in some sectors. I think the Ontario government recently announced some internship programs. We're hoping to see more initiatives on that front. We think it would be wonderful to support the internships because a lot of times those newcomers to Canada have an issue about having to have Canadian experience. It's difficult to have Canadian experience when no one is willing to give you an opportunity. So pushing those internships and those internship programs would be a fantastic idea. I think the federal government can certainly use a little bit of its powers of distributing some of those training program moneys to suggest to their partners at the provincial level some initiatives on that front.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Mayes.

We'll move to Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much.

Thank you both for being here today.

I would like to first get some clarification from Mr. Buy on his presentation about the particular problems with Newfoundland and Labrador, where students had run out of training dollars midway through sessions. Would it have been the fee payer component of their funding support?

[Serge Buy]

It actually is the money the government pays the institutions to train them for the program. Basically, money is given to students to pay for tuition, and that money ran out. Some students in the middle of their studies, who were to start again in a couple of weeks, were told, sorry, you have to leave the training program, we have no money available for you. It actually ended up in the news in Newfoundland and created some issues just before the election. It's certainly a concern for us.