Human Resources Committee on March 4th, 2014

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

What do you do, test the individuals on—

[Denise Amyot]

We do pre-learning assessment. We ensure that it is culturally sensitive. That's very, very important. The colleges are trained to do that.

Once we do that, we assess what is needed: is it more literacy, is it more mathematics, or is it more soft skills, as I mentioned earlier in terms of the essential competencies? We provide specific training according to the needs. We have developed some specific tools in order to assess those essential competencies. As well, specific training can be given.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay. Great.

We're time sensitive here, so I apologize for....

[Anna Toneguzzo, Manager, Government Relations and Policy Research, Public Policy and Canadian Partnerships, Association of Canadian Community Colleges]

Sure.

In terms of the ASETS program, colleges have told us that, for example, in a region where there are a number of ASETS organizations and a large territory to cover, if different ASETS organizations have, let's say, five learners, it's more difficult to set up training for five learners. But if ASETS organizations could pool their learners, let's say 15 to 20 learners, then it would be cost-effective in terms of developing and delivering—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Do the current regulations around ASETS preclude that?

[Anna Toneguzzo]

Well, in terms of regional coordination, colleges are saying that it would be easier if they could regionally coordinate with ASETS organizations.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

We heard that from the group from B.C. as well, and this just underlines it.

In terms of the Moose Cree project, you identified significant employment opportunities, business opportunities. Are there specific carve-outs for the first nations communities, or targets for the number of workers you want to employ? Are there specific goals, I guess, or specific carve-outs in these projects? I thought it was really neat that the community was taking an equity position in the project; I thought that was neat.

The other thing was that you identified the development program as being nationally recognized. When we're doing this kind of stuff, we want to identify who's getting it right, who's doing it right, and how they can then help other communities. That way you don't have to go back and reinvent the wheel.

How are you getting an opportunity to showcase that and help other communities?

[Joe Heil]

With respect to the first question, the carve-outs, what was unique about this project was that actually the EA spoke out to the employment requirements. We had to have at least 200 person-years of employment as part of the EA, but our approach was really to maximize the employment opportunities. If we needed 600 people on site and they could be all aboriginal, definitely that's where we would head. We were trying to maximize the actual amount of opportunities.

With respect to being nationally recognized, OPG has been to Ottawa a number of times to speak about our particular program or what have you. We really are following best practices.

I want to describe quickly, if I could, what we did, just to give you a sense of where we are on this program. We did get the ASEP funding. We initially got two years of funding. We applied for other funding thereafter and weren't successful. With that initial bit of funding, what we did was that....

There really wasn't any employment agency up there that we could work with, so we worked with the first nations, the unions, the contractors. We actually did an inventory of how many people could be employed up there, aboriginal people, and we got an inventory of 2,000 people. Then we asked people, “Who wants to work on this particular job? Who's interested?” About 500 people put their hands up. We did individual assessments for each person who put their hand up. We found out where they were and where they wanted to be. It is true that probably about two-thirds of the individuals didn't have their grade 12, so there was a lot of work there.

As a second part, once we had a job identified, we matched up the individual with the job and ran them through the training program. We did that for 176 individuals. Every single individual who went through the program got a job at the end of the program. We had a 96% success rate on our training. Doing those individual assessments was key to success in the program.

I have a list of best practices. I think the committee is well aware, hopefully, of what the best practices are in this area. Certainly we took every one of them to heart, and there was a lot of support.

The other piece that I really feel is important is that we worked together. We worked with the first nations; we worked with the unions; we worked with our contractors. We worked jointly. That also was, to me, a key feature of why we achieved success.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

We'll move now to Mr. Mayes, for five minutes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

One of the keys that I see and that our government has identified is the links. The Canada job grant was to link the employer with the educator with the person who needs employment. I want to talk a little about that in regard to aboriginals. You mentioned that, Mr. Heil.

When you go into a community, how do you communicate? Do you have a career opportunities meeting to talk about those things? There's the upgrading, because of some of the outcomes from K to 12. That discussion needs to happen. There's also the support, because with some of the aboriginal communities.... I was part of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, and one of the issues was the cultural shock in going to a learning centre if they have to leave their community. I would like you to touch a little on that.

As far as the educators are concerned, it's great to see the employers connecting with the colleges and the training facilities to identify the needs. I would like the representative from the Association of Canadian Community Colleges to talk a little about that linkage with the employer, and how you work that out.

Also, for the employers, as far as commitment is concerned, you're in for the long haul. What does that entail?

First, Mr. Heil.

[Joe Heil]

There are a lot of questions there, and there are a couple of key words.

On commitment, first of all, certainly we have a first nations and Métis relations policy. It's a board-level policy, and our board is very dedicated to that policy. You may be familiar with some of our board members. Our chairman is Jake Epp. He used to be a minister of Indian affairs and is very dedicated to the program. More recently, Roberta Jamieson is now a member of our board. We definitely have a lot of strong support at the top of the house.

The other word I use is “link”. We actually started what we call link committees down in the Clarington area. We have a potential project on the horizon called Darlington refurb. There are about 30,000 person-years of employment that will happen as part of that construction project; it's over 15 years going forward. About 20% of those are going to be apprentices. We've reached out to the aboriginal communities in the area, the Williams Treaties first nations—there are about six of them—and to the aboriginal communities in Toronto so that they can take advantage of these opportunities.

What the link committees are doing at this point in time is bringing the youth to the table, bringing the first nations to the table, and bringing industry to the table so that we can start talking about the opportunities. As part of that conversation, other industries have now started to say they want to join the link committees. OPG just produces electricity, but Hydro One is a company that transmits electricity in Ontario. They're looking at joining. We're looking at other industry partners to come in to share in that and build a body of demand for jobs. Then supply is coming from the first nations.

Where I see a deficit is both up in the Moose Cree area and down in the Darlington and other areas. There seems to be a disconnect between the actual administrative arm of chiefs and councils and these AHRDAs, aboriginal human resources development agreements, or ASETAs. There doesn't seem to be very good communication between those two. We definitely need that communication. We've reached out to the first nations and are trying to facilitate a dialogue between the first nations chiefs and councils, and the ASETAs.

[Denise Amyot]

Thank you for the questions. I have a number of points to make.

First, there is a concern right now in colleges that if the funding comes from a reallocation of the funding of the labour market agreement this would be a problem. A good part of that funding in fact goes to persons with disabilities, aboriginal people, and older workers, and this would prevent the training from being offered to those people, whether it is in upgrading or in development of skills.

Second, there is a concern right now that if the focus is on short-term training and that the training is not credentialized, if you will, the people who would benefit from that training would not get credits for it and where would it lead?

Third, what is needed really is flexibility in approach. I believe that with the recent announcement by Minister Kenney flexibility for the needs of the different provinces and territories will be ensured.

One of the things we insist on with respect to the Canada job grant is there's a need to ensure that essential skills will be also be covered in that, because what's the purpose if you develop the skills but you're not able to work as a team, or you're not computer literate, and you don't have those essential skills?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much. That's long over the allotted time for that round. That's the end of the first round. We move on to round two.

Monsieur Brahmi.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Amyot, you just answered my colleague's question about funding—not funding for your association, but funding for courses and the colleges you represent indirectly because you're two steps removed from teachers. That was my question, so now I'll ask another.

In your second recommendation, you lamented low literacy levels, particularly among adults who did not complete high school. Literacy includes numeracy and computer skills because the three are generally very closely related.

You also mentioned that the 28% of first nations individuals living off reserve corresponds to the 28% of the population that enters college without the required level, while in the general population, that proportion is 11%. Do you think that number is even worse for first nations members who live on reserve?

[Denise Amyot]

Without a doubt.

A lot of people live on reserves. I used to work for Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Unfortunately, many first nations people who live on reserves do not complete high school. Some do not even complete elementary school. That number is much higher.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

That means you recommend more funding not for colleges, but for K to 12 so that people can achieve the required level of literacy. Is that right?

[Denise Amyot]

Absolutely.

Recent funding announcements are a step in the right direction because they will address that problem. However, as I mentioned, providing it for K to 12 is not enough because funding allocated to the post-secondary sector has not gone up in several years even though the population has grown. We now have proportionately fewer students who can continue their post-secondary education.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

You're suggesting that funding be increased to match inflation and population growth, but also that significantly more funding be allocated per student to compensate for the difference in literacy levels observed at the end of high school. That difference is three times bigger for first nations people off reserve, and it's probably even bigger for first nations people on reserve.

That brings me to another question. Do you think that colleges have a service delivery strategy for students who live on reserve and who are therefore far from the cities where college-level studies are offered?

[Denise Amyot]

Colleges have been looking at that issue for years. They use a variety of models. Once a year, there is a symposium where people get together and share lessons learned and best practices. That is why we decided to develop a protocol that will be modelled after LEED certification.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

It will be a certification.

[Denise Amyot]

It will be a kind of certification to make sure all of the bases have been covered.

We evaluate people and assess their specific needs. We use strategies to better meet their needs and ensure that the skills they'll develop will be useful to their communities.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much for that.

We move on to Mr. Butt.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here.

I'll start with the Canadian Electricity Association. We certainly know from the recent ice storms that we saw down my way the very dangerous work that is done by many of your members, the linemen and the other people involved in this sector. It's tough, dangerous work, and I'm wondering what you are doing to recruit people, not just aboriginal citizens of Canada but others. For the purpose of this study, I'm wondering what you're doing to recruit people who would be interested in working in this very dangerous field, so that they recognize it as a career option for them, given the fact the work is very tough. You're exposed to the elements. You're dealing with electricity. Some of us are afraid to screw in a light bulb without electrocuting ourselves sometimes. I can just imagine the level of danger involved in some of this work.

What are you doing to make this career choice more acceptable to people as an option?

[Jim Burpee]

Yes, it's dangerous, but a lot of what the training is about is how to manage the danger and manage the risk, because we don't like to put people out where there is a risk of actually getting harmed. Safety is a key part, and training is a key part.

With respect to the member utilities, you would find that each one actually works very closely with their local community colleges for one thing, for a lot of the trades training, and will have partnerships. OPG would have several, usually community based, in terms of raising awareness. A lot of the companies will work with the high schools to promote what the ongoing trades are and what the opportunities are. There are trades operators and engineering and professional services all the way through the industry.

We expect a turnover over the next four or five years of about 40% of the workforce, so this is a critical issue for us. When we actually look at the aboriginal component—someone asked earlier about commitments and targets—it's not about meeting targets. It's about creating the workforce that we desperately need and is available for our facilities.

Every company will be doing job fairs and working with the community organizations to raise awareness. I'm trying to think of what other associations we work with in terms of promoting the industry for jobs, because they are really good jobs.