Human Resources Committee on March 4th, 2014

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

In the 2013 sustainable electricity report that you published, you indicate that 87% of your member companies have procedures for training and employment of aboriginal peoples. Could you speak to the quality and success rates of these measures?

[Jim Burpee]

I think Joe has really represented what a good job OPG is doing, and not just on the Lower Mattagami. They have relationships across the province and have done partnerships in several areas. Manitoba Hydro has been doing this for a long time and has excellent programs, as has BC Hydro. The reason it's 87% and not 100% is that we have a few members that might be in a very urban area, such as Medicine Hat or others, that might not have seen the same issue.

I think also that one of the key things Joe has mentioned is that when we talk about Darlington, that's not a northern Ontario or northern Canada project. That's in southern Ontario. There is a large aboriginal community within the urban settings that we should deal with, but we do have a few smaller members that don't see that connect or need just yet. Anyone who is doing any major project development of northern resources will have a component that looks at more engagement of aboriginals in terms of the workforce out of necessity.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

My last question will be for the colleges.

You mentioned a program with the truck drivers that went right on site. Fifteen were trained right in that community and bang, literally, there were jobs the next day once the training was complete.

Do you have another example like that, that you would want to share with us? I thought that was a very intriguing way of doing it, actually taking the job opportunity to them, rather than expecting them to get their transportation, etc., out to the training site.

[Denise Amyot]

In your booklet there is another one from Nicola Valley that you can see. It's on page 40. The truck or trailer has different types of trades. The students try different types of trades for a period of about 12 weeks. From that they are able to see which one they seem to be more naturally skilled at and which one they seem to be more passionate about. Is it welding, or plumbing, and so on?

What is very interesting, as you can see on this one, is that 85% of the students who have participated in that program pursue opportunities afterward because they discover that they do have skills and they can learn something. It is really to entice them to pursue studies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I'm going to end the first session at that point because we only have a very short period of time and we do have to switch over our presenters.

I wish to thank you for coming today and for taking the time to provide the briefs as you did and your testimony. It will certainly help in our study. Thank you again.

We'll take a short break while we change to the second panel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I'd like to welcome everyone back to the second hour of meeting number 14 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

We continue our study concerning opportunities for aboriginal persons in the workforce.

For the next hour, we're delighted to have with us, Ms. Elizabeth Cayen, executive director with the Nunavut Fisheries and Marine Training Consortium.

We are also joined by video conference from Winnipeg, Mr. Donovan Fontaine. Actually, we're not joined by Mr. Fontaine, as I understand it. He hasn't arrived yet, but hopefully he will arrive. He's a board member at First Peoples Development Inc.

We also have Ms. Joan Harris, a program manager, who is actually on the screen via video conference with us now. Welcome.

Finally, also by video conference from Winnipeg, we have Mr. Kent Paterson, president and chief executive officer of the YMCA-YWCA of Winnipeg.

Thank you for joining us. Hopefully, Mr. Fontaine will arrive as we go through the testimony.

I'll turn the floor over to the witnesses for their 10-minute opening remarks and presentations.

Ms. Cayen, would you begin, please, for 10 minutes.

[Elisabeth Cayen, Executive Director, Nunavut Fisheries and Marine Training Consortium]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

On behalf of Nunavut Fisheries and Marine Training Consortium, NFMTC, I would like to thank you for the invitation to share a success story with you about a training program with far-reaching effects on the lives of Inuit beneficiaries in Nunavut.

NFMTC was formed to meet the employment opportunities presented by the emerging fishing industry in Nunavut. Our program is an example of how partnerships can work together to bring about change.

Who are our partners? The Government of Canada and the Government of Nunavut provide financial resources. Inuit training organizations provide financial resources and help identify students on a regional level. The hunters and trappers organizations throughout Nunavut help identify students locally and provide assistance with applications. Nunavut Arctic College provides great in-kind contributions, classroom and other space, and greatly reduced rates in accommodation and meals. The Marine Institute is contracted by NFMTC through the college to deliver our highly specialized training. Very important are our fishing industry partners, those companies that hold fishing quota in the waters adjacent to Nunavut. They provide financial resources; they help identify required training; and most importantly, they provide jobs. Without this element, the training would serve little purpose.

NFMTC provides training in the marine industry: offshore and inshore fishing, fish-processing plants, commercial and research vessels. We provide training that is not a made-for-Nunavut solution. Training is mandated and certified by Transport Canada and is internationally recognized.

Training occurs mainly in Nunavut, closer to the homes of our trainees. Only for very advanced training requiring highly specialized equipment do our students leave the territory.

Our training is responsive to industry needs. Yes, Transport Canada mandates what needs to be in the curriculum for their certification, but industry may have additional requirements.

What happens when our students complete their training? This is where the story gets good. This past year we had approximately 300 course participants in some 35 different courses. Our course completion rate is up to about 95%. That's up from some 75 students in seven courses, with a completion rate of about 70% in the early years. We actually have to turn students away now. For every 12 seats, we get 40 to 50 applications.

Are there jobs for our trainees? The answer is a resounding yes. Our industry needs crew for their vessels. In one of our last courses, all 12 students went to sea; that's 12 positions taken by Inuit crew on various fishing vessels. The last few years have seen huge increases in the number of young Inuit going into the offshore industry. This past fishing season was our best so far with 100 Inuit on the various offshore fishing vessels. In the past, we had maybe 20 or 30, so that's a huge increase.

The whole mindset is changing. Our students, having gained successful employment on the vessels, are becoming role models in the communities. In days past if we asked students whether they knew anyone in the industry, there might be one or two in the class, and now every hand goes up. They, too, want to get out of their cycle of poverty and unemployment and have successful careers.

The inshore fishery has grown also. While this is highly seasonal work, the Government of Nunavut reports that there are about 100 inshore fishers. An inshore winter turbot fisher can earn upwards of $70,000 in a three-month period. It's good money.

In full season, 50 to 60 workers in the three processing plants in Nunavut process fish from the inshore fishery and get it ready for the market.

Then there are the cargo vessels. In the last two years our expanded training has assisted eight Inuit in finding employment on these vessels. There are plans by the two large sealift companies that serve Nunavut to increase their Inuit complement.

We've also provided training for a young woman and several young men to work on the RV Nuliajuk. That's the Government of Nunavut's research vessel.

With a population of about 30,000 and with more than half that population under the age of 18 years, there are now approximately 275 people employed in the marine industry directly as a result of our training programs, and that's in this past year.

What is the economic benefit of this training to Nunavut and to Canada as a whole?

An offshore fisher makes between $75,000 and $100,000 per year. Most of that is spent in local communities. If there are five fishers in one community, that's about $450,000 of revenue into a very small community of less than 1,000 people. One hundred offshore fishers earning $90,000 per year pay income taxes of about $2.7 million. The Government of Nunavut levies a payroll tax of 2%, so that's another $200,000.

Last year we received $1.5 million in federal and territorial funding. Given these numbers, we can say we're self-funding and in fact helping to balance the budget.

There are other benefits that are harder to measure, such as savings on income support, subsidized housing, and health care. The incidence of violence and crime decreases as income increases. The children of a parent who is able to support those children are much more inclined to finish their education. These are far-reaching results that are very difficult to measure in dollar values.

Why are we successful? There are several integral parts that help us provide meaningful training leading to jobs.

One of the things is a pre-training course. This is a two-week course that helps applicants decide if the industry is for them, and that helps us to screen applicants, the pre-assessment that was talked about, that we heard in the last session.

The second thing is we have realistic industry-driven accredited training. Our training is industry responsive, delivered in an environment resembling very much what the workplace will be, to industry standards. For instance, at nine o'clock the door closes because the ship has sailed. So you don't come to class.

We've added a bridge training simulator to our training equipment, allowing students to experience bridge duties. Many students have never seen the bridge of a ship, so this is a great motivator for students. Our training is accredited by Transport Canada. We work with them continually to improve our training and increase our capabilities. We want to provide training that will overcome every obstacle an Inuit faces in maintaining or advancing in his or her employment.

The third thing that's important is the industry partnerships. They provide not only financial assistance and jobs at the end of the training, but we also have a strong working relationship with them whereby we can help underemployed individuals advance in their training, also allowing new entrants into the industry.

The fourth thing that's important is the flexible funding arrangements that ensure our training program fits into funding arrangements. We're currently an SPF program, and that's working well for us. We need that flexibility to allow for work plan and budget changes during the course of an agreement, as needs change.

It's important to have the flexibility in not being limited to a per-person cost. A student who wants to work on a factory freezer trawler will need a bridge-watch rating. Training in one year can cost up to $45,000. The cost of training in the north is enormous, with the cost of travel making up much of this cost. It costs anywhere between $400 and $2,000 to travel one way between Iqaluit and outlying communities.

With this flexibility we realize there's also accountability, and that principle underlies our program.

The fifth integral component is the students, individuals willing to take a chance in a new industry, willing to leave their communities for training and for employment, willing to open their minds to something new, and wanting something better for themselves and their families.

That's the real success story: Inuit beneficiaries who have taken advantage of an opportunity for real training leading to real jobs in a territory where there are few jobs.

On behalf of those Inuit beneficiaries, thank you to the Government of Canada for your support and believing in our program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

Now we move to Winnipeg. Why don't we begin with Mr. Paterson.

[Kent Paterson, President and Chief Executive Officer, YMCA-YWCA - Winnipeg]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and committee members.

I am Kent Paterson. I am the president and CEO of the YMCA-YWCA of Winnipeg.

Our YMCA-YWCA is part of a federation of 50 Canadian YMCAs dedicated to strengthening the foundations of communities. As well, we are one of 28 YWCAs in Canada. The vision of the YWCA is: women and girls empowered in a safe and equitable society.

On behalf of all of our member associations, thank you for the opportunity to share our perspective on how to improve opportunities for aboriginal persons in the workforce.

I’d like to start by giving you a bit of context for my remarks.

Every year, YMCAs and YWCAs in Canada serve more than 2.25 million individuals in 1,000 communities from coast to coast. We offer programs and services in: child care; camping; employment and training programs; youth leadership development; newcomer services; global initiatives; and health, fitness, and aquatics. Our programs and services support individuals of all ages and diverse cultural, economic, and social backgrounds. This includes services for newcomers, visible minorities, first nations and aboriginal groups, and many children and youth.

As well, for well over a decade the YMCA has been a trusted and accountable partner of the federal government in the delivery of the YMCA federal public sector youth internship program, through which we give many youth the leadership and experiential skills they need to succeed. As youth transition through life stages, our partnership with the federal government helps youth to gain experiential knowledge and support to achieve success. I note that between 2011 and 2012, 93.5% of the youth who completed the YMCA federal public sector internship program found employment or returned to school.

Here in Winnipeg the YMCA-YWCA serves more than 80,000 individuals annually through a variety of programs including health, fitness, and aquatics, child care, camping, and employment training.

We employ 175 persons on a full-time basis, and at any given time have upwards of 700 part-time employees. We are a first employer of many, whether it be as a first employer of young persons or the first Canadian employer of many new Canadians.

Specific to Canada’s aboriginal communities, in 2011-12 as part of our YMCA Canada federation’s collective commitment to address issues of national importance, Mr. Scott Haldane, president and CEO of YMCA Canada, served as the chair of the National Panel on First Nation Elementary and Secondary Education for Students on Reserve.

In addition, as a member of the YMCA Canada federation, we're working with four Canadian youth-serving organizations and six aboriginal organizations on a national awareness campaign to change public perceptions of the aspirations and potential of aboriginal youth.

Mr. Chair, and members of the committee, my presentation today is premised on our years of experience as national organizations helping youth to achieve their full potential.

Through the YMCA-YWCA's many years of working with youth, some of whom are aboriginal, we have learned that youth need both structured and informal supports. They need places where they feel safe and a sense of belonging. They need places where they can find people who see their strengths and their potential. They need support to sustain new and healthier habits over their lifetime.

As the committee explores ways to improve opportunities for aboriginal persons in the workforce, especially in the areas of skills development and educational attainment, we'd like to offer the following recommendations.

First and foremost we believe that programs designed to assist first nations and aboriginal youth should be co-created with aboriginal communities, and should reflect their unique values, needs, and cultural context.

Second, we believe strongly in experiential learning for aboriginal youth. In our experience, important preparatory work and supports are necessary for successful transitions from home to school. Young people must be exposed to opportunities that give them diverse experiences. Internship and volunteer opportunities in this regard can help youth to learn new skills. We find that many youth, both educated and less educated, lack job search and workplace skills to succeed. Many also lack the mentors, role models, resources, and networking skills to overcome barriers in their lives.

There are existing initiatives that the government can leverage to help support skills development for aboriginal youth. For example, in 2010 the YMCA developed a sectorial model for working in the petroleum sector in partnership with the Petroleum Human Resources Council of Canada. Through this initiative, youth would receive workplace mentoring and support to assist them in finding employment in the oil and gas sector.

We believe that a similar model could be extended to other industries in partnership with the private sector and aboriginal-serving organizations to help youth achieve success.

The third recommendation we'd like to make is that a social determinants of health lens be used to support our aboriginal youth. As you no doubt are aware, the World Health Organization defines health as a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, recognizing that health is not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

Health, in our view, is a resource for everyday life, not an object. It's a positive concept that emphasizes social and personal resources as well as physical capabilities.

We believe that any programs to support the creation of opportunity for aboriginal youth in the labour market must take into account the 12 key determinants of health that have been identified and adopted by Health Canada and other public health agencies.

In order to support aboriginal youth progress in the labour market, any employment or educational program must recognize the entire range of interacting barriers and challenges to health that they face and must create opportunities in all of the dimensions of health.

Locally, the YMCA-YWCA of Winnipeg delivers the Youth Now program on behalf of the Province of Manitoba. This program assists youth on income assistance to develop employability skills through training and/or work experience placements leading to employment.

Historically, many of our Youth Now participants here in Winnipeg have been aboriginal, although I should point out that the program doesn't specifically target aboriginal persons.

Through this program we provide paid work experience placements and we support young people as they gain the skills necessary to secure and retain employment. The supports we provide range from mentoring and counselling to providing child care as needed. During their time in the Youth Now program, our participants have the benefit of full access to our health, fitness, and aquatics offerings.

In addition, over the last five years we've been a partner in the North End Wellness Centre initiative in north Winnipeg, an initiative supported in part by the MRIF, the municipal rural infrastructure fund. There we operate a centre of community in partnership with Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata, which is a non-mandated aboriginal family services agency.

While the Y's program there is primarily recreational in nature, we do provide employment and volunteer opportunities to many young people in a neighbourhood with a large aboriginal population. For many of these young people, this is their first employment opportunity.

Together with Ma Mawi we're able to provide young people with the mentoring that will help them succeed. We believe this collaborative initiative has served to improve the employment prospects of the more than 1,700 young people we interact with annually at this centre.

That's a high-level view of what we do and what I believe in. As I say, the Y across Canada has had a long history of working with youth. We believe strongly in providing experiential training, and we have enjoyed the support of various levels of government over the years. We hope that it will continue.

In closing, I hope this has been informative. I thank you for the opportunity to share our recommendations. I look forward to any questions or comments that you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Paterson.

Now we move to Ms. Harris, for 10 minutes.

[Joan Harris, Program Manager, First Peoples Development Inc.]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, committee members, and colleagues. Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you today.

My colleague Donavan Fontaine unfortunately is still not available. He is one of the seven board members of our organization.

First Peoples Development Incorporated, FPDI, administers 34 first nations subagreements through ASETS funding. The first nations develop and deliver their own programs and services, which meet their specific community labour market and employment needs on reserve. FPDI provides the oversight, support, and guidance to assist with the transparency and accountability of the ASETS program.

There continue to be challenges and barriers to be addressed by first nations individuals looking to actively participate in the country's workforce. With the time I have I would like to highlight just a few of those challenges that we are dealing with in Manitoba.

The first challenge is local capacity development. Administration budgets have been stagnant for over 20 years, while activities such as strategic plan writing, proposal development, continual staff development to learn new procedures, policies, reporting methods, and working with clients facing multiple barriers continue to be an expectation.

Continuous capacity building for local first nation administrators needs to be supported financially to allow professional development to be undertaken so the expertise is built at the first nation level to support clients. As an example, continuous case management training for local administrators needs to be part of the overall program, so clients receive expert advice during the training to employment plan. Clients start at a disadvantage when they don't receive the proper support at the onset of their training plan.

As an administrative organization, FPDI also lacks administrative funding to do research and development, proposal development, and to address the increasing reporting requirements.

Contact IV was a free client management system. It was phased out in 2013 by our funder, ESDC. New software was purchased and FPDI now faces significant monthly maintenance fees for the client management system, with no new funding attached. Nonetheless, we strive to work at improving the advice and assistance we provide to the 34 subagreement holders.

We have a number of initiatives that we feel fall within the scope of best practices. This includes digitizing communication for the subagreement holders through redesigned websites that we have undertaken. The website provides reporting templates, success stories, information sharing, operational guides, and links to numerous resources so they're available for them in order to carry out their training programs.

FPDI also conducts client management training sessions on an ongoing basis. We have adopted the practice of reviewing client targets regularly with our subagreement holders. We provide training to first nations on how to develop their own targets based on their demographics, historical training, and labour market statistics within their geographic region.

Over the past four years we have trained over 10,000 clients. As well, there is an effort to refocus the subagreement holders to communicate essential information such as ASETS accountabilities, partnership opportunities, financial position of assets, and sharing of success stories during our subagreement holder meetings.

Another issue is partnerships. Although emphasis is being placed on partnerships, the definition from ESDC is limited and only recognizes formal partnerships. Recognition needs to be given to the many informal partnerships that exist between first nations departments, maximizing the integration of programs for clients. Many of the first nation communities rely on interdepartmental training and employment partnerships for their community members, especially when industry demand-driven employment is not geographically viable in many communities.

Regional differences and opportunities associated with accessing industry opportunities need to be acknowledged. Many first nations are remote, with little to no access to major industries and employers in their region. At the same time, all first nations are competing with one another for the same employer in Manitoba in the same industry. In total, there are over 60 subagreement holders, 34 from First Peoples Development and another 30 with our sister organization, MKO.

Budget considerations ignore the cost of relocation and travel to effectively access the demand-driven job market. There is limited provincial funding available in Manitoba. The provincial government input and support is varied nationally. Master agreement holders such as FPDI need to be involved in provincial labour market development negotiations, so that first nations clients are considered during the planning process. Federal support is needed to leverage provincial partnerships.

Formal partnerships with industry need to be built off reserve. This is a big challenge for most first nations as they also have limited local staffing. There is usually one staff person at the first nations level to network and form a partnership. This is difficult to achieve while staff are also dealing with the demands of addressing the client's needs.

Engaging employers at the front end to improve labour market linkages and build programs and curriculum could prove to be positive for clients.

Industry can be proactive and incorporate on-the-job training components for first nations employees.

Aboriginal awareness and building cross-cultural understanding in the workplace are ongoing requirements that industry partners should be encouraged to make available to all employees on a continual basis.

Most potential industry partners benefit from targeted wage subsidies made available through the labour market programs, but employers also need to contribute to the employment process as an equal partner.

The final topic I would like to discuss is child care, as we are currently involved with licensing our child care programs.

Child care is a fundamental need for clients with children. FPDI funds 38 first nations early learning and child care, ELCC, centres through FNICCI funding, a total of 541 spaces. Approximately 150 early childhood educators are employed at the centre. There are no additional funds provided for qualified staff or children with special needs.

The first nations ELCC centres are not licensed by Manitoba and do not receive any additional subsidies. The 2010 ASETS contribution agreement specified that all Manitoba first nations ELCC centres be licensed or regulated by provincial licensing authorities, except in the case where, by mutual agreement between the province and First Peoples Development, child care centres are monitored by regulatory mechanisms controlled by first nations, which are currently not in existence.

In 2012, FPDI participated in an intergovernmental working group with federal and provincial representatives to discuss child care and meeting provincial standards in first nations communities. The group produced a joint assessment report, which was the study of four first nations, to assess how the existing provincial licensing process applies to first nations, and to identify gaps and inequities.

The next steps include recommendations and options on how first nations should be licensed and monitored by the province or an aboriginal-mandated body. The report also identifies resource gaps, funding formulas, and determining national best practices. FPDI hopes the next steps also include recommendations for further analysis and a more comprehensive study to identify the cost of ELCC operations, funding for infrastructure, capital requirements to meet regulations standards, and liability coverage.

In the meantime, FPDI has established the First Peoples Child Care Association, which is the first step to establishing a Manitoba first nations child care entity and its role in this process for meeting an agreed-upon form of regulation. The challenge we face is the fact that there's no funding attached to this group to sustain it. Assistance from other federal departments, specifically and first nations and Inuit health branch, is critical to support first nations child care. Better integration of programs supported by the various government departments would greatly assist with building quality child care facilities that are regulated and would alleviate a point of stress for clients with children.

In conclusion, there has been a lot of good work done by in providing support to first nations in Manitoba. There is a lot more that is needed to address the challenges and barriers facing individuals entering the workforce.

Continuous learning for administrators at the community level, which FPDI is supporting, needs to continue to be part of the overall strategy for increasing aboriginal participation in the workforce. Partnerships of all types, formal and informal, need to be developed. This is not lost on the first nations we work with. However, as indicated, resources both financial and human present real challenges to building solid partnerships that allow first nations to break into the workforce. Industry should be engaged to help find solutions to allow for success.

Improving and making child care an integral part of the training support programming would assist young parents in taking advantage of training and employment opportunities.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to speak to your committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much, Ms. Harris.

We'll move on to the first round of questioning, and Madam Hughes from the NDP, for five minutes.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I think some of what we hear right now was reiterated in the skills shortage study we did at this committee last year.

I was at the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada convention this past weekend and the issue of skills training was brought forward there as well, especially with the Ring of Fire coming up in northern Ontario.

Thank you for being here, Mrs. Cayen. We've heard comments today with respect to some of the institutes. Teg Educational Institute in M' is also doing some good work, but the fact is that the financing isn't often there for the programming. When it comes to child care workers as well as teachers in first nations communities, there is a big discrepancy in wages compared to wages off first nations communities.

You mentioned a lot of the challenges and the barriers. We heard over and over again about flexibility being needed. It's really important to take note that it's not about centralizing, that it's about making sure the small communities are going to be recognized. There's the differences from community to community to community. Mrs. Cayen, you actually did speak on that.

You mentioned a database that's there now, Ms. Harris, and that having to absorb the costs of that certainly means less money for the people on the ground to be able to train others.

I'm wondering if you could elaborate on the flexibility that should be in place. Also, what are the pitfalls that we should be avoiding?

[Elisabeth Cayen]

From my perspective, under the SPF program that we are currently funded by, which will end at the end of March, by the way, we have a very flexible arrangement. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we've progressed from an ASEP program and we know what works. The powers that be have recognized that and have said to let them do what needs to be done.

So a young man, and they are mostly men as fishing is mainly a man's world—

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

What's the age group? That has intrigued me.

[Elisabeth Cayen]

I would say our age group is between 22 and 40. For anyone older than that it's pretty tough to break into the fishing industry. You have to work hard. It's not an easy industry to be in.

We currently have no age limits attached to our funding. It's not youth funding; it's just training money, which is very important. We need to continue having flexibility in the amount that we are allowed to spend per person. That's really important. The cost of training up there is horrible. Flying to here and back costs a touch over $2,000.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

The success that you spoke about, what is the shortage in funding for you to be able to...?

[Elisabeth Cayen]

Actually our funding is—

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

You said you were turning people away.

[Elisabeth Cayen]

We are and that's capacity at this point. We don't want to grow too quickly.

We've had a lot of success in the last two or three years and before we add more instructors and increase our administrative staff, etc., we want to make sure we have something solid going. You have to also remember the industry can only take so many new people per year because it does take time to build up. You start in the factory freezer but then as soon as you start there the next step up requires that you have six months' sea time. Then the next step up requires more and more.

It's a progressive type of thing that happens so we can't say that we're going to train 100 people just for the offshore this year and hope they all get jobs. That's not realistic. You can't put all “green horns” on a boat. The captain would go crazy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much. That's five minutes.

We'll move to Ms. McLeod from the Conservative Party.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses.

It's very heartening to hear the success story of your particular program, and some of the great work that is happening across the country. Things are certainly not where they need to be, but we're hopefully moving in a good direction.

One of the goals of this study is to look at the programs that are working, the models, and the challenges. We've heard about SPF and ASETS. I'm going to ask all the witnesses who care to comment, what are the good and bad in those types of program funding?

I'll start with Ms. Cayen, and then head to the video conference.

Could you speak about the good and the bad about both models, please?

[Elisabeth Cayen]

We're not really involved with ASETS. Our Inuit training organizations that help fund us are funded by ASETS, and it funnels that way. We've never had any program turned down by an ASETS program, so that's a huge thing.

To be honest, we've found that the funding is pretty good. It just keeps coming. For the type of program we're running, it's been very successful. Even the amounts that we're getting.... Yes, we can always use more money, there's no doubt, because we would grow more, watching the labour capacity.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Could I quickly clarify my point?

The students are getting some funding to participate through ASETS, but you're getting funding for your organization through SPF. Both forms of funding are funnelling into the delivery of your program.

[Elisabeth Cayen]

Yes.