Human Resources Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Alain P. Séguin]

That's right.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Is that in addition to the money that would have been allocated this year, so that it's an added amount?

[Alain P. Séguin]

Yes. It could also be moved into future years as well. We've got a few programs with that.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you for that clarification.

But one of the big concerns I have is that when I've met with some of the post-secondary institutions that are looking at training, they are very concerned about the additional resources they need. Yet we had resources that didn't get used.

The other question I have is based on a comment made by Michael Mendelson, a public policy specialist at the Caledon Institute of Social Policy, that Ottawa lacks the capacity to administer $900 million a year in training funds with the oversight that such an endeavour would require. He referenced some things in Europe as well.

He went on to suggest that as planned, the Canada job grant is risky and has the potential for a good deal of abuse and fraud. I have to admit that I share a similar concern. Can you comment on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

On a point of order, what has that got to do with the supplementary estimates (B), insofar as the Canada job grant is not part of these estimates?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I'm going to allow some latitude to allow you to get to the point. You have about a minute left. Get to the point please.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Basically I want to ask what checks and balances are going to be put in place to ensure that the money is used in the way it is intended?

[Ian Shugart]

I would just reply very briefly, Chair, that before the department spends any money on any program, we make very sure that the appropriate accountability and performance measurement regime is in place.

But I would also just refer to the minister's comments that the government fervently hopes to reach agreements with the provinces so that the Canada job grant becomes part of their delivery. That's the government's objective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for that response.

I'm going to excuse myself from the chair now, members, just so you know, which ties in nicely with some parts of today's discussion, because I need to get to the House of Commons for the tabling of my motion entitled “Strengthening Employment for Canadians with Disabilities.”

Madam Sims as vice-chair is going to take over the balance of the meeting.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Mr. Armstrong, you're next.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I guess I'm really going to focus on supplementary estimates (B) now.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

I'll give you the same latitude.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that, Madam Chair.

Congratulations and welcome to the chair. I think it's the first time you have taken the chair in this committee.

We're going to be doing a study after Christmas—we're actually starting this week—on the assets program. I notice that supplementary estimates (B) ask for $11.9 million for the first nations job fund for job training.

Can you expand a bit on what that's going to be applied to?

[Ian Shugart]

The funding for the first nations job fund, Chair, is not the same as the funding for the assets program, but it will be distributed, we hope in the vast majority of cases, to what we refer to as assets holders. These are the service providers—there are about 80 of them across the country—who are the direct service providers for aboriginal skills and employment training in the communities across the country.

The first nations job fund is the fund that has been set up in employment social development, which, together with the enhanced service delivery funding that has gone to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, works to identify the most promising communities in which current income assistance clients, young people on reserve, will instead of income assistance be receiving pre-employment supports delivered through Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development and employment training funded out of the first nations job fund.

The two really come together between the two departments, and our part of the services are provided through what we refer to as the assets network. The baseline funding for aboriginal skills development is provided through the assets network as a separate budget item.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you very much.

I do want to give an opportunity for the officials to answer Mr. Butt's questions, which he asked in the last round. So if anyone would respond....

[Ian Shugart]

I would just say those negotiations with the provinces on the affordable housing agreements are beginning. Our colleague, Steven Mennill, from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation could add detail if you wish.

[Steven Mennill, Vice-President, Policy, Research and Planning, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation]

Thank you.

As you may know, we have existing agreements in place with all provinces and territories until March 31, 2014. The government announced a five-year extension to that program, and we are currently in the process of negotiating that five-year extension with all provinces and territories.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

My last question has to do with the deferral of the OAS recipients. I think in the supplementary estimates (B) there's $3.1 million to be applied to the administration of this new program we put in place.

Can you expand on why this is so important to give our needy seniors more flexibility as to when they receive their OAS benefit?

[Jacques Paquette]

I can answer that. What was put in place in fact is something that provides more flexibility to people. Before of course OAS was available when you reached 65 years old.

The deferral will allow you, if you choose to do so, to defer it as long as you wish, up to age 70. A calculation is done based on actuarial costs, which means you will increase in fact by 7.2% each year you defer the amount of your benefit for the rest of your life.

It adds flexibility so that if someone decides to keep working, for example, to remain in the labour market past 65, they can decide to postpone the receipt of OAS without losing any money. In a way, because of the actuarial calculation, over the period of time they will receive the same amount without losing anything.

So that adds a lot of flexibility, and of course it's related to the fact that the labour market is evolving with the demographic challenges society is facing. People are aging, and we know that if people are extending their participation in the labour market, that will also help the entire country to deal with some of the pressure we might be facing. So it's to have that flexibility, and it's an additional choice for people.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you. You are out of time, sorry.

I'm going to go over to M. Boulerice, to be shared with M. Tremblay.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You already know that.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Now I can ask the question I couldn't ask earlier when I only had 10 seconds left.

I'd like to come back to my pet topic today: the homelessness partnership strategy.

The budget already sets out $134 million. You're asking for an additional $13.3 million, an amount that hasn't been spent previously. So we have a total of $147.3 million. Budget 2013 sets out $119 million per year over five years.

Between this year and next year, the funds allocated will decrease by $28 million, or a little less if we take into account the additional $3 million. Those are considerable amounts that are being lost. What that means is that the groups will have much fewer resources available to them.

What do you think the impact of this decrease will be on successfully addressing homelessness?

[Jacques Paquette]

Those are two different things. There is the base budget and the amounts that were not spent, but they will be spent.

The program was renewed for five years. In the past, the renewals were two or three years, for example. Some challenges about activity planning were mentioned. But if organizations know that an amount will be allocated over five years, things will be more stable for them. Being able to count on that amount will probably make things much easier for them. Since funding will be more stable, it will be easier to spend the money as planned in the coming years.

I spoke about infrastructure programs. Once completed, it's much simpler. We agree that it's an accumulated amount that will be spent in the end. It will provide a good basis to continue the program. I don't think there will be a trickle down effect. On the contrary, we'll be able to spend what should be spent. Then, we can focus on what is normally the base envelope.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Suppose I have a three-year contract, and I earn $75,000 a year. If my contract is renewed for five years and I now earn $50,000 a year, I will still be making less per year.

[Jacques Paquette]

We're talking about base funding. Community funding isn't changing. It will stay the same. You seem to be alluding to the amounts that haven't been spent, but they will be.