Human Resources Committee on April 30th, 2018

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

My next question is for the Treasury Board. With sick leave—because we can have banked sick leave—is it common practice that employees would use up all of their sick leave before retirement?

[Sandra Hassan]

Are you asking if it's common practice?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I guess I'm asking what the statistics are. Is that what happens? If people have six months, would they use that six months of sick leave up before their retirement?

[Sandra Hassan]

I don't have those statistics. If you're asking if people are using their sick leave as vacation days, that would be an inappropriate use of the sick leave. The sick leave is to be used by employees when they need to be absent for medical reasons.

We must take the population into consideration. People who retire are typically toward the end of their career and more aged. With age comes all sorts of problems, and consequently it would be unfair to equate the use of the sick days solely with the fact that they are retiring. In many instances we see people who actually have heart attacks while they're at the office, or they leave the office and have a heart attack, and are off for quite a number or days and then decide that they don't have the strength to come back and they then retire.

It's often misinterpreted as being a use of their sick leave before they retire, but in many instances where we have older employees who have worked hard, been under extremely stressful situations for years—for long periods of time—it has an impact on the body.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Trudel.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

If it's possible, we would like to have the average amount of sick leave that is used by civil servants before retiring.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Is that something that is readily available?

Does Statistics Canada have it, maybe?

[Geoff Bowlby]

No, we don't have those numbers.

I don't know if it's within the database of the Treasury Board.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

On a point of order, is this relevant?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

It is important for Canadian taxpayers to know, on average, how much sick leave is normally used by civil servants before they retire.

We heard today that there may be justifiable reasons for that, but Canadians have the right to know how sick leave is used, on average, by our civil servants before they retire.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

This is not a point of order.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is this a point of order?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

If we cannot get this information today, Mr. Chair, we'll proceed in another way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

This isn't a point of order. This is a question, so I'm going to move on.

Madame Trudel.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

My question is for Ms. Henderson.

In the second-last paragraph on page 7 of your presentation, you say that “if enacted, Bill C-62 would allow consideration of the terms and conditions of employment related to the sick leave of CSC employees to be dealt with as part of the collective bargaining process.”

Can you please give me more details on what this paragraph means exactly?

[Kristel Henderson]

Roughly speaking, it means that the bill would allow employers and bargaining agents to negotiate the sick leave and disability regime to include it in the applicable collective agreements.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Is the disability insurance plan currently included in the collective agreements, or does it have to be negotiated?

[Kristel Henderson]

I will refer the negotiation aspect of the question to my colleague from the Treasury Board.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Perfect.

[Sandra Hassan]

Can you repeat the question, please?

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

The question was related to the presentation.

If passed, Bill C-62 will include the work conditions related to sick leave in the bargaining process. Could you explain the process further?

[Sandra Hassan]

Bill C-62 plans to repeal the measures introduced by Bill C-65 that are part of the current legislation.

Fundamentally, once these provisions are repealed, we will return to the status quo, and we will have to sit down with union representatives and negotiate every amendment to the provisions of the collective agreements, as well as those of the short- and long-term disability insurance plan. The employer will not be able to impose this; it will have to be negotiated.

There are currently two common negotiation tables discussing these issues. The Public Service Alliance of Canada chairs one table, and the institute chairs the other. The future of the plan is regularly discussed.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

As you said, Bill C-65 was amended. Were sick leave and the disability insurance plan imposed by the employer as a result of these amendments?

[Sandra Hassan]

Bill C-65 allowed the employer to impose it. This power was delegated, but never exercised. Consequently, the legislation included the possibility of imposing it, but the president of the Treasury Board would have had to recommend that his department impose it. That would have been a Treasury Board decision, but this power was never exercised.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Maybe that's why—