Evidence of meeting #114 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was child.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you very much for coming today. I can't even imagine what it takes to get on a plane and come down here and open yourselves up to this.
I suspect that as we go through this, we have to ask questions and try to understand, especially if you're looking at the EI system. It's a very complicated system because, as you heard today, two million people apply for claims throughout the year. I don't know if the EI system is going to be as empathetic to these types of challenges, but I think we all agree that we can do other things through different venues. That's where we're going to continue asking those questions: What works, what makes sense, how can we move forward?
When my colleague mentioned the CCB, my eyes just sparkled, and I thought that makes sense, because you're already getting funding. If there's a grace period in there, it could be a seamless thing. My dad passed away last year, and as much as we knew he was going, nobody prepared anything—no funeral costs, nothing. In your case, it's a surprise. I can't even imagine, because we went through quite a bit just to figure out how we were going to pay for the funeral. I think we're all very empathetic.
I'm blown away by your efforts with Quinn's Legacy. I think that's part of how you're trying to heal yourselves and your families. I think there's potential for us to support something like that. How do we take what you do, and what others have done and support it? Clearly a healing process is involved. I think you need that, more than some bureaucrat telling you to give them a piece of paper.
We're going to have to keep asking hard questions. Nobody wants to ask those questions. At some point, you have to bring a certificate to Service Canada and let them know. I don't know how you get away from that, but it doesn't have to happen in that same week. That's clear. When you heard that your EI runs out in the same week, it's hard. There should be a built-in grace period while you don't have to engage. I don't know how we do that. Part of what we're doing is asking those types of questions and relying on the experts and the folks who are going through these challenges.
I don't have questions for you, because you've laid it out quite clearly for us. It's more a question of where we go from here. There are a couple of minutes; if there's anything else you want to share with us, I'll leave that up to you.
I hope we can find constructive ways to move forward with this.
Chair, Quinn's Legacy Run Society
I think what we're looking for here today—it's been said a couple of times—is the seamless transition, the ability for families to not have to discuss this immediately with people, whether it's Service Canada agents or however it starts to unfold. I think that's the key for us: that there is that time, that grace period, given to families so they can find a way to cope, to figure out what new life looks like for them.
Some people will take longer, some people less time, but we just have to find a good overall offering that we can give to the Canadian people.
Banff—Airdrie, CPC
I'll just add a couple of comments as well.
First of all, you mentioned the idea of a grace period, rather than having it cut off in that week. You commented that you didn't know how that would look. I don't think it would be that difficult to do. It would simply be a recommendation from this committee that there be a change to a period of time after which the benefits cease to exist. That would be a very easy change to make to allow people a little time before they have to start to approach Service Canada and things like that. That would be simple, very easy, for this committee to recommend, and very easy to do.
The other thing I'll point out is—and it's been raised a number of times by different members—whether there are other ways this can be done. The idea has been raised about the CCB. I'm not certain that this is going to be something that will replace the income of people so they don't have to go back to work. I'm not sure that particular program is necessarily the one that's going to do it unless you're going to increase it significantly in the period of time at that point.
If these questions are being asked and the ideas are being circulated that way with a genuine belief that we have to make sure we meet those principles, I'm certainly supportive of other ways that this can be done. The EI system is the one that was identified previously as one that was set up in the best way. It's something that exists already.
Having said that, if out of a genuine place people are looking for other avenues, fine, as long as it's something that will allow people the amount of time they need to grieve and as long as it is going to replace the income so they don't have to consider going back to work.
There are a lot of people who don't have family, friends or support. Organizations like Quinn's Legacy Run Society are very helpful for people who are aware that they exist, but it's not something that they're going to be necessarily aware of, unfortunately, so we have to make sure that whatever we do meets those principles.
I urge the committee to make sure you're thinking about it that way and not just simply trying to find a way to put it somewhere else. Make sure it's done with the principle in mind that we have to ensure that we're providing something that's going to be possible for everyone to access. It should be able to replace a little bit of income so that people don't have to consider going back to work within days of their child passing away.
As you very correctly pointed out, Mr. Ruimy, it's not something that people ever expect. We prepare for the idea that our parents at one point are going to pass away. We prepare for the fact that our spouse might pass away at some point and we have life insurance and savings to deal with that, but nobody's ever thinking about that when they're about to have a child, so we're not prepared. Most times, of course, it's people early in their life, and there aren't savings yet because they're just getting started, so this is not something that most people are prepared for. Financially, it can put people in a very difficult position, and we have to consider that as well.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
First of all, I want to thank you for sharing your story and for being a voice and an advocate, especially because we're hearing that people don't have that. Some people don't have advocates by their side, so I want to thank you for taking that torch and doing that.
There are a couple of things I want to touch on. One question is with the CCB. Some families don't receive CCB, so we would have to make sure that those children who aren't part of that program aren't overlooked, if that's the way this committee decides to make a recommendation.
I heard some things in your opening statement, and I just want confirmation on them to make sure I'm not making any assumptions.
There was nothing on the Service Canada website. Was there any direction on any government website on what to do after the loss of a child?
Vice-Chair, Quinn's Legacy Run Society
No. I was just going to jump in there at the end. It's just that ease of information. There was a ton of information, such as on preparing a will—
Conservative
Vice-Chair, Quinn's Legacy Run Society
Yes, but it just wasn't there for an infant child.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
They could have even a recommendation of some areas where someone could be directed, contacted, that type of thing, on their website.
Vice-Chair, Quinn's Legacy Run Society
Yes, absolutely. It would be useful information.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Service Canada....
Being on this committee is interesting, with my past work experience. I was a social worker in the past. It is very easy to become immune to terrible situations, to death, to people. When I was doing my training, there were practices that they would have us do for ourselves—some of it included self care and that type of thing—so that people didn't become inhumane. People are people, people have feelings, and it's too easy to treat somebody like a number.
I've been through the EI system myself, having children, and so has my husband. My husband took parental leave with our youngest.
I want you to correct me, but do you think that Service Canada workers should have some type of compassionate training or some type of training that emphasizes the humanity of humans, that makes them think, “Yes, I do have another call that I need to make, but right now you're here, you're my client, and I need to be a human too”?
Do you think that Service Canada employees would benefit from some type of compassionate training in such matters?
Chair, Quinn's Legacy Run Society
I think it's definitely something that is overlooked. To treat people like numbers is also a coping mechanism for them. They are bombarded with many different issues and they're expected to know everything about every different situation they're put in. I think it just becomes a coping mechanism for them to treat everything as being in the same situation—this is how we deal with it, this is what the book says, and this is how it is dealt with.
Any kind of training they could take to be able to deal with some of these specific situations would be beneficial.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
In my experience, working with bureaucracy is very black and white; there is no grey, there is no grace. There is none of that. It's either that you're here right now, or if you're not, then you're not here.
You made a very good point, Sarah, about sick leave. When I was pregnant with my kids, I wasn't overly sick and didn't have to take sick leave, but I think it is something that this committee needs to be aware of in the future, especially with many women going into trades fields and various types of workplaces that could be hazardous, women who aren't able to work while they're pregnant. If they're paying into EI, this gives them the opportunity to take the sick leave benefits. I think the committee should be mindful that some women aren't working up until the end of their pregnancy because they can't, because it's unsafe, or because it's a high-risk pregnancy such as you had.
Again, I want to thank you guys for being here today and sharing your story and carrying the torch on this very difficult topic.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much.
This brings us to the end of this first meeting on this study. I want to thank both of you for coming here today and sharing your story with us. I'd like to thank Mr. Richards for authoring this study to encourage us to do this work.
As a housekeeping matter before we break, let me say, so that you can prepare questions and so on, that we will likely be having to cut short our meeting of a week from Thursday as a result of being addressed in the House by the Dutch prime minister.
Thank you very much, everybody. We will adjourn.