Human Resources Committee on May 30th, 2016

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Welcome everybody, and thank you for some very compelling testimony. My comments are going to be directed to Mr. Vander Ploeg.

First of all, can you tell me the scope of your labour needs: part-time, full-time, seasonal, what's the breakout?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

These jobs are permanent, full-time. It's not seasonal at all. They're permanent and full-time jobs.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

We all heard in previous testimony, and we hear it all across the country, that we're taking jobs away from Canadians. My next question is on that. What I need to understand a little bit more is the strategy that your business has used to to attempt to attract and retain Canadian workers.

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

We've used numerous strategies, from the traditional newspaper and that's giving way to social media. I'll give you a very interesting example. Lyle Miller, who owns Highway 21 Feeders in Acme, Alberta, now says he gets most of his Canadian workers through Facebook. He starts a conversation with a person on Facebook. They talk a little bit about what they do. Lyle tells them what he does. Eventually through that relationship he may find a Canadian worker. Social media is becoming big. It's a huge part of our awareness and recruitment program as well to reach out and use those new digital tools to get Canadians interested in it.

Despite all of that, though, it still is extremely difficult. There are reasons for it. One is that these jobs are in rural Canada and a lot of the unemployment pressure is in urban Canada. When you have a person who was born in the city of Calgary, raised in Calgary, went to school in Calgary, did his university in Calgary, and secured a white collar job in the oil and gas sector and then lost the job, it’s difficult to then to say to this individual there are opportunities 150 miles south of Calgary out on a farm.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I just want to take this a little bit further, though, because we're not just talking about oil and gas workers. What about tapping into labour markets such as indigenous people and youth?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

On the youth side of things, that's actually a big concern for all of agriculture given the aging workforce in Canadian agriculture. We're reaching out to younger Canadians to be sure. A good part of our recruitment strategy is getting into the schools at the secondary level and on up, reaching out that way. We have a young producers program at the Alberta Cattle Feeders' Association.

On the indigenous side, that too has been a focus. I know that the plant in High River has certainly expended a lot of effort in that area. It has proven to be somewhat difficult for them. But certainly we've reached out to them.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

When we're talking about attracting Canadian workers, obviously we have to talk about wages. Is this the type of business that I could raise a family on?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

The starting wage for an entry level position in a feedlot can range anywhere between $18 and $24 a hour depending on what you're doing. There's a reason for that too. The work is special. You're dealing with a huge investment. The owners of these operations want to train people. They make a significant investment in it. Despite that though, the fact of the matter is that it is rural Canada and there are increasingly fewer people available in rural Canada to do these jobs.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

How many of your members are unionized?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

That I don't know.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

But you do have unionized members?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

I can't comment on that. I could certainly find that out for you and distribute it to the chairman.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay, thank you.

We've heard today and from other witnesses of horrible cases of abuse. Have you heard of and seen some of this abuse in your field?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

No.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Not at all?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

I haven't heard of any cases.

These temporary workers who have been tapped by cattle feeders represent a significant investment. Cattle feeders are not interested in temporary workers. They've resorted to the temporary worker program as a matter of last resort. What I've heard are other stories. For example, there's Paskal Cattle Company near Lethbridge where a Mexican temporary worker was brought into the country, did very well, and received permanent residency. His family came and now this individual is actually the manager of that feedlot operation.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

This leads me to the next question. For LMIAs, do employees who receive permanent residency generally remain working within the industry in filling that labour gap, or do they move on?

[Casey Vander Ploeg]

My sense, and it's just a sense—so I can ask this question of some of our members as well—is that they do stick around because there are opportunities to move within the industry. A good example is the fellow at Paskal feeders who started in an entry-level position and is now managing a feedlot of tens of thousands of cattle, and he is very successful at it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Mr. Sangha, please. You have six minutes.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

My question is for Mr. Pollard. I understand that you are involved in the lodging industry, hotels.

[Anthony Pollard]

That's correct.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

You say you have a shortage of seasonal workers during a bad season.

Is the pay that you offer them comparable with the pay that Canadians are required to have?

[Anthony Pollard]

Yes, it's very much so.

In fact, about three years ago in Alberta, we commissioned PricewaterhouseCoopers to do a summary of what the wage rates were and how they reflected minimum wages and above. Going back three years ago, through PWC, we showed that the average was about $16.50 an hour, which would be even higher today with inflation. Yes, it's very much over and above what the minimum wage would be.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Okay.

Do you feel there is any problem in getting labour market impact assessments for your temporary foreign workers when you want to call them?

[Anthony Pollard]

Yes, there are problems with it. There are a whole variety of problems, everything from where to advertise, how long do you do that, to the information that you collect, and proving that we've done everything in our power. At the end of the day, you have to remember that in a hotel we need people today or tomorrow. If all of a sudden business changes and you have to ramp up, being able to say, well, six months from now we'll be able to have somebody here in most cases is just not good enough.