Human Resources Committee on May 30th, 2016

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'll begin with you, Mr. McAlpine.

We're hearing from many witnesses, including employers, that creating a clear path to immigration is something that is seen as very important in reforming the programs that exist right now. Do you believe this would create a more stable environment for workers—obviously not just in your industry—and also create stability for businesses and encourage worker retention in the industry you're in?

Could you speak to that with a particular focus on retention?

[Rory McAlpine]

Very definitely, as I think others have mentioned, agriculture is not an easy occupation. Meat cutting is certainly not easy, and retention is a major challenge in the industry; it always has been.

What we've found in our successful use of the program and the transition to permanent residency for foreign workers is that retention is much better than it has ever been before in our business, in our plants. Once workers obtain their permanent residency, they can certainly then move and work for anyone, but they are very loyal and they know that a lot has been invested in them. They become pretty quickly part of the community because of the outreach we're making to the community, to our partners with the help of the union, to ensure that their settlement is successful. In that sense it's a win for the workers.

In that's sense, it's a win for the workers and it's win for us as an employer, because, as I say, of the loyalty, the hard work, and the retention that we enjoy—and for the community. In these cases, smaller rural western Canadian towns that are often suffering depopulation can actually see it reversed. That's exactly what has happened in Brandon, Manitoba.

Overall it has been a very positive experience and one that is facilitated by permanency as distinct from thinking of these individuals as temporary.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My next question I will direct to you, Mr. Wong.

One of the discussions we've also had, albeit brief in the context of this study, concerns the lack of inspections. For example, between 2013 and 2015 there have only been eight on-site inspections. This is despite the harrowing tales we've heard of abuse and exploitation that have taken place in a number of workplaces, sadly. Could you share your thoughts on the deficiencies on that front? While we're all talking about access to citizenship and certainly policy-driven pieces, the reality is that the inspections are not taking place.

I'm wondering whether you could speak to that.

[Vincent Wong]

I'm aware of some of the inspection deficiencies that have been brought forth on the record by previous witnesses. Obviously, that is a major concern—again, going back to first principles—because of the significant power imbalances between temporary foreign workers who do not have permanent status and their employers.

Part of this is obviously a government resource problem. I'm encouraged with the direction of some of the reforms, such as providing more funding to some of these inspectors. Again, I will say that some of this is going to be inherent, if they're on temporary status in the first place.

The other thing that compounds this problem is that if you have them in isolated places—such as, for example, on farms, where it's very difficult to do an inspection, to actually go all the way out—it's very costly to do.

We might want to think about this whole thing. Instead of putting really big bandages on the symptoms, we might think of a better way to provide permanent status more quickly to people who need it and to provide ongoing settlement services so that they can fix these problems themselves; they'd have the collective bargaining ability to advocate for their own employment rights.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Just quickly, and obviously you've spoken to this as well, but some experts have said that a cap on who can apply for permanent residency is an issue. I'm wondering if you can speak to the notion of these caps, or the fact that they exist. Are they linked to the kind of exploitation that workers face?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about one minute, please. Thank you.

[Vincent Wong]

I'll quickly address that.

Yes, I do think that the caps on permanent residency for those programs do contribute, because if this is the whole pie, let's say 5% can apply for PR, what happens to the 95%? They're stuck in temporary status limbo. These are all created by us as a society, as a government, when we allow a huge number of people to stay in temporary, precarious status. We don't give them access to health care, to social services, and then we're surprised by the harrowing stories we hear. That's going to be a problem and if we're going to rely on this temporary foreign worker system, we have to make it a full-on permanent nation-building project.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

I would like to introduce Hubert Bolduc and Martin Goulet from Montréal International.

Please, gentlemen, seven minutes for your introduction. Thank you.

[Hubert Bolduc, Chief Executive Officer, Montreal International]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, I would first like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to appear as part of this consultation.

The temporary foreign worker program is an essential tool for the economy of greater Montreal. Montreal International acts as an economic driver for greater Montreal to attract foreign wealth while accelerating the success of its partners and clients. We attract foreign companies, international organizations and strategic talent to the greater Montreal area.

Greater Montreal is not the only metropolitan region that can count on this type of organization. Most big cities in the world have those types of agencies. Actually, 4,000 foreign direct investment and talent attraction companies are competing around the world. By comparison, there were only 800 companies 20 years ago. They are essential for competitiveness, growth, wealth and, of course, the future of the cities they represent.

Since its inception, Montreal International has helped to welcome and retain 10,000 international strategic talents and has attracted foreign direct investment to the tune of $10 billion in greater Montreal. Those projects have lead to the creation and maintenance of 52,000 jobs and the establishment of almost half of the 60 or so international organizations in the city.

Immigration is inevitably part of the equation when we meet with foreign investors. That is the first factor in attracting foreign investment. We are asked on a regular basis whether Montreal has a pool of strategic and skilled talent available and whether it is large enough. If that is not the case, is it possible to recruit strategic workers abroad and can they get a job quickly?

The presence of strategic talent is at the core of the concerns of business people and potential investors. That asset is even more key than the sectors that drive job creation in greater Montreal: higher learning sectors that depend mainly on the skills of the labour force.

The brief that we have presented and are presenting is built on three major principles. Our immigration system must be able to make decisions quickly. It must be easily understandable for our companies and must be predictable, which means avoiding the arbitrary and numerous annual changes.

Immigration must not put a damper on economic growth and our capacity to attract foreign investment. On the contrary, we must set ourselves apart from other areas that are also looking for strategic talent and equip ourselves with the means to realize our ambitions. It is also important to make a distinction between temporary foreign workers who are skilled and those who are not. In the past, the two categories were wrongly treated equally.

Since greater Montreal is rooted in the knowledge economy, its economic development must go through the development of its high-tech sectors. The companies operating in those sectors often call on specialized temporary foreign workers to make up for local and regional labour market shortages. Let's think specifically of the following sectors: information technology, video games and visual effects, software development, consulting services, financial services, and so on. Those sectors have seen a growth rate of up to 25% a year.

Montreal International supports a number of those companies in their recruitment efforts abroad. Most of the applications with which Montreal International is involved are made through the simplified application process for the labour market impact assessments for Quebec employers. This process makes the requirements easier for a list of professions that are in shortage or in high demand, as established by Emploi-Québec. To date, this program has turned out to be effective and has made it possible to reduce the companies' hiring delays, especially in the city's leading-edge sectors.

We strongly encourage you to keep this simplified process for Quebec and to use it as a model for the rest of Canada. It gives a very competitive advantage to attract foreign investment in greater Montreal and elsewhere in Quebec. Employers recruiting from abroad have urgent needs and we must try at all costs to simplify and speed up the process. That is especially important since strategic sectors such as visual effects and video games are those with very tight project deadlines, which can lead to the loss of contracts if they are not met.

The recent changes made by the Government of Canada to the foreign worker program have caused a lot of uncertainty and pressure on employers. On the ground, we feel that they are burned out and they say they are misunderstood by the authorities.

In Quebec, immigration is a shared jurisdiction. We have already communicated to the Government of Quebec our thoughts on the temporary foreign worker program and we have prepared a list of priority recommendations. They are included at the end of our brief. They must be considered and implemented quickly.

As I mentioned in the introduction, our immigration system must be fast, predictable and easily understood. It is important for the two governments to work hand in hand. That will allow us to increase the pace of development of the leading-edge sectors of our overall economy. Our recommendations are mainly on those points: shorten the delays in the foreign worker program, eliminate the requirement for the transition plan for professions that have a shortage, eliminate the administrative burden of the program—whether in terms of the consistency of decisions or the assessment of applications—and clarify the new concept of employer compliance, which comes with heavy sanctions.

This consultation must also be conducted in partnership with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, which is responsible for the international mobility program and, ultimately, for the issuing of work permits with the Canada Border Services Agency. We have also made recommendations to them.

Montreal International is particularly aware of the value of the contribution of immigration to the economic development of greater Montreal and the importance of working to give Montreal its rightful place in attracting strategic talent from all over the world.

You can rest assured of our willingness to continue to actively co-operate with all authorities who seek our participation in the discussions and the actions affecting greater Montreal's economic development future.

Thank you very much for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to go back to Monsieur Deltell, please, for six minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bolduc and Mr. Goulet. I am very happy to greet you.

Mr. Chair, let me specifically greet Mr. Bolduc with whom I had the pleasure of working in the past. In another life, Mr. Bolduc was the Quebec premier's spokesperson. He was also the secretary general for government communications at the ministère du Conseil exécutif. Hubert, I am happy to see you again.

Now, let's get back to the decorum.

Mr. Bolduc, first of all, I would like you to tell me about the simplified process in Quebec. What distinguishes the simplified process in Quebec from the current process? I know that you have talked about it and that it is mentioned in your document. Could you briefly tell us which aspects of the current federal legislation and regulations need to be improved as soon as possible?

[Martin Goulet, Director, International Mobility Services, Montreal International]

A simplified process was put in place in Quebec almost three years ago. It is an agreement between Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Emploi-Québec and Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions. This agreement makes it possible to make a list of the jobs that are in high demand or in shortage. When a job is on that list, we can obtain a labour market impact assessment much faster, within four to five weeks, and apply through the simplified process. That makes it possible to eliminate the requirement for employers to show a pile of evidence indicating that they made efforts locally, since we know that there is definitely a shortage in that profession.

Naturally, as Mr. Bolduc mentioned earlier, the list is established for the province. We encourage you to perhaps use it as a model for the rest of Canada. I know that people have come to see you and proposed that you eliminate the LMIA, the Labour Market Impact Assessments, for some leading-edge sectors or some high-demand professions. We have also told you that there may be a way to regionalize those simplified process lists.

Would you like to say something, Mr. Deltell?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You can continue with your answer, Mr. Goulet.

[Martin Goulet]

I would like to mention that, if a profession is not on that list, the process is much longer. The employer will have to wait more than three months before receiving an answer.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We have talked with representatives from the video games industry. They said—and you talked about it before—that sometimes a project for which they wanted to hire a person would end within 18 months to two years.

In your view, from beginning to end, what would be the ideal timeline for the entire operation of selecting someone for a job and bringing them to live and work in Canada?

[Martin Goulet]

In some industries, the projects only last six months. Waiting for three months just to receive a positive decision to allow us to bring people to Canada is not worth it. In an ideal world, decisions should be made in about 10 days or less than two weeks. That would be wonderful.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It would be wonderful, but is it feasible? Has it happened before?

[Martin Goulet]

Yes.

We have had that sort of result in the past, especially on Canada's west coast. If an employer had previously obtained a positive LMIA, it was possible for decisions to be made faster with a second or third application. The previous government had included in the Putting Canadians First reform the possibility of obtaining LMIAs within 10 days.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

There were stricter regulations about two years ago because, unfortunately, abuses had been noticed by seasonal employers out west, among other places. I know that's not your area at all, but it is technically the same thing since they are foreign workers who come here for a certain period of time. We understand that these are two completely different things, especially in terms of wages, but that's what brought this situation about.

You are talking about technology, video games and the financial world. In your field, have you experienced this sort of situation where people, after they came here, did something other than what they were hired for?

[Martin Goulet]

You are right to point it out.

We must make a distinction between specialized or strategic workers and those who are not specialized.

Under the current compliance regime, a solution that was put in place after the observed abuses ensures that employers honour the commitments they make in their application and their obligations for the benefits and wages agreed on.

The problem facing leading-edge companies today is this. They hire a programmer at $80,000 CDN and the compliance regime requires them to inform Service Canada of a wage increase of over 2%, even if it is on an annual basis. We try to supplement the wages of those workers because they are working in leading-edge sectors. Sometimes, it may take two to three months to be able to supplement the salary because we are waiting for an answer from the government. We have had more experience with the reverse situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay.

Friends, here is my last question.

You talked about technology, video games and the financial world. My question may be peculiar, especially given the issues we have experienced.

Those people are used to working in high-tech. Could you have those people work from abroad or do they absolutely have to be in Canada?

[Martin Goulet]

In practical terms, the employers want those workers to be in their company. They need to develop and design projects that are confidential. For all the reasons that you may imagine, very few of them are working outside Canada.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Anyway, it is much more cost-effective for those people to live here instead of working through a camera.

[Martin Goulet]

Absolutely.