Human Resources Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

So I will take your answer as a “maybe” and remain hopeful.

Many poverty reduction strategies can be adopted at the same time. I am, however, happy that, in your remarks, you talked about “the” strategy. In fact, I think it should be what I call an “umbrella strategy”, equivalent to what the Government of Quebec does as part of its sustainable development strategy: each time a department takes action, it must assess whether or not the action contributes to sustainable development.

You say that we need indicators, but we also need assessment mechanisms. Each time the government or a department takes action, we must be able to use a comprehensive strategy to assess whether or not that action reduces poverty. That is what I propose in my bill. We need a mechanism that enables us to report annually to the House of Commons on how we contributed to poverty reduction over the course of the previous year.

Without mechanisms like that, we will be unable to determine down the road that, for example, the 2015-2016 committee, through its recommendations, helped reduce poverty. That would also help verify whether your department fulfilled its mandate.

Do you agree with me that saying both strategies helped reduce poverty and being content with that is not enough, and that instead we need to ensure that all of our strategies help reduce poverty?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is a very good question. As you know, as a matter of fact...

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm sorry to interrupt. Please make it very brief, because we're out of time for the question.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is one of the major issues raised in the document I submitted to you this morning. It is, in fact, an invitation to participate in the debate on the nature of indicators and goals, and the way that we are going to ensure that those goals are truly being met in the work we do and our public policies. Over the coming months, your comments and those of all Canadians will be an important factor in developing this anti-poverty strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Robillard, you have the floor.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Minister, welcome.

Many seniors in our country are living in poverty, a problem for which we can and must find a solution. Minister, can you tell us how you plan to help seniors avoid falling into poverty rather than having to get out of it? What preventive solutions are you proposing?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Robillard.

As I was trying to say a bit earlier, this support program for those living in poverty is part of a broader program by the Canadian government based on three elements: economic development, sustainable development and inclusive development. Inclusive development, a key aspect of the program, is for everyone, especially seniors whose living conditions can vary a great deal. We must recognize that seniors' living conditions can be quite different, whether we are talking about health, economic security or family, and that diversity means we must demonstrate great scientific and social sensitivity.

For example, we brought the age of eligibility for the Old Age Security Pension back down to 65. That does not necessarily mean everyone must retire at the age of 65, it is not a fixed retirement age. Retirement age is a personal decision made according to one's capacity for work, and as a function of conditions that are often unrelated to that capacity: each person's working conditions, state of health and family circumstances. Bringing the eligibility age back down to 65 demonstrates a social sensitivity that will prevent seniors aged 65 and 66 from living in a society in which the poverty rate for that age group would go from 6% to 17%; in which 20% of the most vulnerable seniors would lose 35% of their income; in which 40% of the burden resulting from the former government's reforms would be born by 20% of the weakest and poorest of our seniors; in which middle-class women in that age group would lose 34% of their income, whereas men would only lose 11%. One hundred thousand seniors would fall into poverty. So this is an important social sensitivity given the context of disparity amongst seniors.

One of the elements that contributes to that disparity is income security. Over time, reforming the Canada Pension Plan will go a long way to strengthening that security. For the most vulnerable amongst us, increasing the Guaranteed Income Supplement will also play an important role. That measure alone will pull 13,000 seniors out of poverty.

Finally, there is the issue of investing in housing. Seniors' housing conditions are crucial for their well-being, and in the context of our considerable investments in housing, we have clearly indicated that a substantial portion of those funds be allocated for seniors.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Can you tell us more about your task of developing a new price index for seniors that would be used to index Old Age Security and Guaranteed Income Supplement Benefits? What are the specific details of this approach?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The main message is that we are working to improve income security for seniors, and provide them with physical security and better security to face the health problems that are a natural part of aging. Income security is therefore important. Within the framework of guaranteed income security, there is the insecurity seniors feel about the cost of living. For seniors, incomes are often fixed and the ability to increase their income is limited, especially in the context of low interest rates.

So the biggest threat to security comes from an increase in the cost of living, which can have a greater impact on seniors than on the rest of the population. During the election campaign, we made a commitment that we will keep, to develop a price index for seniors in order to protect them from the risk of the cost of living increasing more quickly for them than for the rest of the population given the fact, I repeat, that seniors' incomes are quite fixed after they retire.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about a minute and a half.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I'll share with my colleague.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I need more than a minute and a half.

First, welcome, Minister. It's great that you're here, and I certainly applaud you personally and your department—certainly, Dan, Josée, Mathieu, Ariel, and Terry—for the work that you're doing to help Canadians in need.

One of the things I constantly see—and we talked about this at our last committee meeting—is poverty study after poverty study throughout Canada. They are on shelves everywhere, and we can always pull them out and read them, yet I find it frustrating to see the lack of innovation with respect to poverty reduction.

If you want to compare poverty to, say, the environment, you can look at how far we have come, despite what some members opposite might say, in thinking about carbon and greenhouse gases and things like that. There has been a lot of innovation with respect to things like that. But if you look at the poverty side, there really hasn't been a lot of new thinking.

I'd like to get your comments on how important innovation is for poverty reduction and what incentives the government could potentially give to groups and organizations that are innovative in reducing poverty.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid he didn't leave you much time to answer that question, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

How much time do we have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have less than 20 seconds. Go ahead.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Good. That should be all right.

There are three levels at which we want to innovate.

First is the ability to dive into communities, as we are doing with the Tackling Poverty Together project, to understand fully the incredible depth of actions and attitudes of our communities towards reducing poverty. It's so comforting to see this dedication in so many of our communities and families towards making their society and their environment more inclusive. That's the first step. The second step, once we've done that, is to build our poverty reduction strategy together, which ideally will be an important document, and, therefore, perhaps even more important than the earlier documents you mentioned.

Once we've done that, then the two levels of additional innovation will be to partner in our actions with all of these groups and folks who are so willing to work with us, and to do this in a different manner by trying to connect better the different dimensions of the lives of our families—housing, child care, training, labour force participation, public transit, and green infrastructure.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Maybe, with respect, I'll get another chance in the next go-round, so we'll continue on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Ruimy's up now. Maybe he'll share some of his time if you're lucky.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here. This is a very important study for us, as well as for the whole country.

In my riding of Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge and in communities across Canada, we are seeing not-for-profit and private organizations playing imperative roles when it comes to poverty reduction. These organizations have often filled the gap that governments of the past have been unable or unwilling to address.

I know you mentioned in your initial comments things you can do, but I'd like to know a little bit more about how you intend to work alongside some of these non-profit organizations to support the work of these organizations in the fight against poverty.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We look to you for an indication of how we will do this. We will do it because we know it's how our government can work best to reduce poverty, given that our resources will always be limited and the needs and the expectations of our citizens will always be very high. To make the most effective and inclusive use of those resources, we know that we need to work with communities, the non-profit sector, the social sector, the social economy. I count on you to guide us in that process.

We'll be receiving all sorts of other input. I alluded earlier to the work of other MPs who have supported this type of initiative earlier. So we know that other sources of engagement will also be fundamental, but your views and your input will be key in that exercise.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

You mentioned certain housing initiative funds. Could you elaborate on how that would work? If you were a non-profit, when would you be able to access those funds?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a very good question. It's what I announced on Friday. The non-profit sector, the private sector, and municipalities are all invited to join forces to make use of that innovation fund. Again, we're going to support more strongly initiatives that will be innovative in terms of partnerships, leveraging resources and energies across our communities in a co-operative and self-reinforcing manner, and projects that will create synergies in our communities. An example is seniors: how can we build housing for seniors that is innovative and takes into account the diversity of needs and circumstances of our seniors population to make sure that their social participation, physical security, and mental and physical health are best addressed by our housing investments?

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Across the table we know that homelessness is a complex issue that is rooted in various social conditions and experiences, such as poor mental health and addictions. In the past we've seen attempts to address homelessness and poverty that have not really considered the importance of these social factors. Could you please speak to your intention, to your approach to homelessness and poverty in an innovative way that is mindful of the root causes of poverty?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's right. As you know, and as we know, homelessness is caused by two major factors. The first is mental health and the second is addictions, which afflict some groups more than others. We know who they are. We know ways and means that make our use of resources more effective. That's often done best at the community level.

The communities vary, again, according to their needs and circumstances, and their abilities to address homelessness challenges. We know that community decision-making is important, but the federal government needs to be there to provide support through resources and signals.

We did announce in last year's budget the first reinvestment in the homelessness partnering strategy since 1999, a 50% increase. Part of that increase announced last week is designed to support innovative techniques and attitudes in addressing the homelessness challenges. It's very similar to the housing file. We want to encourage partnership and we want to encourage synergies, both to prevent and to cure, and to try to avoid the reincidence and/or the incidence of homelessness.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I have just under a minute left.

Again, we know that everybody is involved in this process. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you intend to work with all of our partners, because the municipal, provincial, and federal levels have to start to work together? Can you speak to that, please.