Human Resources Committee on Jan. 31st, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Good morning, everybody.

Welcome back. I hope everyone on the committee, the staff, and interpreters has had a nice break, is recharged, and ready to get back at it because we're not starting off slowly, to put it lightly. We're getting right back into the study.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, June 13, 2016, the committee is resuming its study on poverty reduction strategies.

We are very pleased today to have a very full panel for our meeting. From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Doug Murphy, director general, social policy, strategic and service policy branch. From Statistics Canada, we have François Nault, director of health statistics; and Jennifer Ali, chief, health statistics division. From the Department of Health, we have Sony Perron, senior assistant deputy minister, first nations and Inuit health branch, as well as Dr. Patricia Wiebe, medical specialist in mental health from the population health and wellness division, first nations and Inuit health branch. Last but not least, from the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Anna Romano, director general, centre for health promotion, health promotion and chronic disease prevention branch.

Thank you all for being here. It's incredibly cold outside, so thank you for all being here. We're going to get started right away with opening statements. We do have a full complement here today, so we will keep statements to seven minutes.

Starting off today, Mr. Murphy, the floor is yours for the next seven minutes.

[Doug Murphy, Director General, Social Development Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you very much, chair and members of the committee. It really is a pleasure to be here.

I'm going to provide a bit of broad context on the government's poverty reduction strategy just to set the table for my colleagues, so to speak, who will also talk about this important issue in some depth.

As you are aware, the government has committed to developing a poverty reduction strategy that will set targets to reduce poverty, and to measure and publicly report on that progress. As you also know, poverty reduction strategies are not uncommon in Canada. Provinces, territories, and municipalities already have strategies, and for the Government of Canada it will be important to build on their progress in this area.

As a first step, a discussion paper towards the poverty reduction strategy was tabled on October 4 before this committee by Minister Jean-Yves Duclos. You may recall that the purpose of this paper is to provide a frame for our forthcoming discussions and a national dialogue on the subject of poverty reduction in Canada. It is a truly collaborative effort, so I'd like to thank my colleagues who are here, because they played a very important role in the development of that dialogue paper and I think the panel is entirely appropriate to discuss these important issues.

The paper explores the various dimensions of poverty: income, housing, employment, education, health, and inclusion. It also talks about the groups that are more at risk of living in poverty, called vulnerable groups because they are more vulnerable to poverty.

Overall, I think the message of the paper is that poverty is a complex issue and its solution will require a multi-dimensional approach. One thing that comes through—and I think it'll be an important topic today—is the connection between poverty and health, which moves in both directions. When individuals live in poverty, they are more likely to experience poor health; and at the same time, when individuals are in poor health, they're more likely to experience poverty than those who are in good health. It becomes more difficult to attend post-secondary education, to participate in one's community, and to secure a job.

While the connection is multi-faceted and complex, an important factor in reducing poverty will be supporting Canadians with mental health issues. My own department has a number of programs that either directly or indirectly support individuals with mental health issues. There's the homelessness partnering strategy. The link and the relationship between mental health and living in homelessness is well documented. We also provide income support programs such as employment insurance sickness benefits and the Canada pension plan disability program.

As for the next steps in the poverty reduction strategy, one of the things that we're doing is an important project called the tackling poverty together project. This will be rolling out via case studies in six communities across Canada: Saint John; Trois-Rivières; Toronto, Regent Park; Winnipeg; Yellowknife; and Tisdale.

One of the real purposes of this project is to speak to people with the lived experience of poverty, to understand what's working, what's not, and what could be improved. As we talk to the people with the lived experience of poverty, mental health issues will undoubtedly come to the fore.

We're also developing a longer term public engagement strategy, which we hope to launch shortly. Again, we'll be speaking with experts through round tables, but we'll also be speaking to people with the lived experience of poverty, people who are experiencing it on the ground; and we'll undoubtedly be hearing about the link between mental health and poverty in Canada.

In conclusion, I would like to thank the committee for inviting us here, and I'll turn it over to my colleagues in Statistics Canada to provide a statistical overview of mental health in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

We are going to move over to StatsCan now.

I am sorry, I did not ask before. Is it François?

The floor is yours for the next seven minutes, sir. Go ahead.

[François Nault, Director, Health Statistics, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My colleague Jennifer Ali, who is a mental health statistics expert, is going to do the presentation.

It will be our pleasure to reply to questions in either official language.

[Dr. Jennifer Ali, Chief, Health Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members. Thanks for the opportunity to share with you some information about mental health in Canada.

The most recent comprehensive data on the mental health of Canadians comes from the 2012 Canadian community health survey on mental health. Most of the data for this presentation comes from that survey. It covers people aged 15 and older in all provinces, but not the territories, aboriginal reserves and settlements, the Canadian Armed Forces, or the homeless. Since it is a cross-sectional survey, I will talk about associations, but will not be able to draw conclusions about causation.

I’ll be referring to mental or substance use disorders. In this survey, respondents were not asked to self-identify. Instead, they were asked a series of questions about symptoms experienced and the types of behaviours they engaged in. Then, based on their responses, they were classified as having met the criteria for a mental or substance use disorder.

Unless otherwise noted, disorders discussed in this presentation are based on having met the criteria for a disorder in the 12 months prior to the survey. Six disorders were measured in the survey: depression, bipolar disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, alcohol abuse or dependence, cannabis abuse or dependence, and other drug abuse or dependence.

We have provided a profile on how mental and substance use disorders vary across a number of demographic and social groups. Since there are too many graphs to go into detail on each, I'll start with a summary of the results and then draw your attention to several key findings, leaving the details in some of the charts for your reference or questions later.

To summarize the main points of all the charts to come, many people experience a mental health problem at some point in their lives. Women have higher rates of mental disorders while men have higher rates of substance use disorders. Vulnerable groups include youth, people who aren't married or common law, single parents, those with low incomes, aboriginal people, those with a history of homelessness, and those who had childhood maltreatment. Immigrants were an exception in that they have lower rates of disorder compared to the Canadian born.

Now that I’ve given away the main points, I’ll focus on a few of the slides in more detail. On slide 5, overall, about 10% of people met the criteria for one of the disorders in the past 12 months. The proportion of Canadians with a mental disorder was about double that of those with a substance use disorder, 6% versus 3%. While not shown on this chart, it is important to note that about 1% of Canadians had both a mental and substance use disorder.

On slide 6, the numbers we've been looking at refer to the 10% of people who experienced a mental or substance use disorder in the year before they were interviewed. To add some context, about a third of Canadians reported having experienced symptoms of a disorder at some point in their lives. The good news is that we can see that most of these people didn’t experience symptoms in the 12 months prior to the interview.

Moving on to the prevalence among certain age groups on slide 7, we see that overall those aged 15 to 24 were at a higher risk of having a disorder, almost one in five. The overall rates of disorders then declined as age increased. This contrast by age is mostly attributable to substance use disorders. Those aged 15 to 24 show a higher prevalence of substance use disorders than any other age group.

While not shown here, 3% of those between the ages of 15 and 24 had both a mental and substance use disorder, a significantly higher proportion than the overall average, which was 1%. By contrast, the proportion of people with a mental disorder was about equal for all age groups, with the exception of those aged 65 and older.

On slide 8, when taking income into consideration, a larger proportion of those with an annual household income under $20,000 had a mental or substance use disorder compared to all other income groups. Just under 20% of Canadians with an annual income of less than $20,000 reported a disorder, while for all other income groups, the range was between 8% and 11%.

In relation to income and disorders, it is of interest to note that there was a higher prevalence of disorders among those who relied primarily on social benefits as their main source of income. More specifically, about three in 10 Canadians who stated that social benefits were their main source of income had a disorder compared to one in 10 of those who relied primarily on employment.

We know that household income has different implications, depending on a number of factors, such as family size and location, so we asked respondents if they felt their income was enough to cover their basic expenses. Those who said they had difficulty covering basic expenses were more than twice as likely to have had a disorder than those who felt their income was sufficient.

On slide 9, related to the finding on social benefits, we see that people who were permanently unable to work had higher rates of mental or substance use disorders than those with other working statuses.

Slide 13 looks at rates of disorder among parents with children under 18 living at home. We see that single parents experienced rates of mental or substance use disorders about double that of their married or common-law counterparts.

On slide 14, we see that immigrants are a group that is overall better off, with rates of disorder that are half that of those born in Canada. This may mask vulnerable subgroups such as refugees, but we don't have this data by subgroup. Although it's not shown on this slide, we also looked at visible minority status. There are no differences by visible minority status once immigrant status is taken into consideration. Before that, the visible minorities had lower rates.

Moving to slide 16, this last comparison has to do with childhood experience of maltreatment. Previous research has suggested a link between early childhood maltreatment and an increased likelihood of developing a disorder. In this survey, childhood maltreatment was measured as experiencing specific types of physical maltreatment or sexual abuse at least once before the age of 16. Results from the survey are consistent with previous research, as they indicate that almost 14% of adults who had experienced childhood maltreatment had a disorder, compared to 6% among those who had not experienced maltreatment—more than double.

To sum up, as I mentioned earlier, other vulnerable groups that we have provided data for but have not discussed in detail include aboriginal people; single, divorced, and separated people; and people with a history of homelessness.

I hope this mental health profile of Canadians is useful for your work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

From the Department of Health, is it Sony or Patricia who is going to start us off?

Sony Perron, the next seven minutes are yours.

[Sony Perron, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Department of Health]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I am the senior assistant deputy minister for the first nations and Inuit health branch at Health Canada.

This is the first time I appear before your committee. I am delighted to have this opportunity to speak with you this morning.

Before continuing my presentation, allow me to introduce Dr. Patricia Wiebe; Dr. Wiebe is a mental health medical specialist, and works in our branch.

Today, I will provide you with a general overview of our mandate and programming, and then I will be ready to answer your questions related to mental wellness through innovative approaches in the context of poverty reduction.

Health Canada, through the first nations and Inuit health branch, is committed to working with first nations, Inuit, and provincial and territorial partners to ensure that first nations and Inuit communities and individuals have access to a broad range of quality health programs and services that are responsive to their needs and priorities. First nations and Inuit face historical and ongoing impacts of colonization, including intergenerational impacts of Indian residential schools and disconnection from the strengths of culture and indigenous world views.

As you know, first nations and Inuit grapple with serious health challenges. When we compare them to the general Canadian population, we see that they have a shorter life expectancy, a higher rate of chronic and infectious diseases, as well as higher rates of mortality and suicide.

They must also overcome greater challenges when it comes to the social determinants of health, such as higher unemployment rates, less schooling, and higher rates of overcrowded housing.

It is widely acknowledged across Canada that substantial disparities exist between population needs for addictions and mental health services and the currently available services. This gap is even wider with respect to indigenous populations.

To emphasize the topic that brings us here together, I would like to share some information about the mental health programs and services funded by our branch that provide support to indigenous individuals, families, and communities and that may also impact those with disabilities and indirectly contribute to poverty reduction. I will also talk about the framework that guides Health Canada programs, intervention, and services approach that helps to improve access to these important services.

Health Canada is investing over $300 million annually to support the mental wellness needs of first nations and Inuit communities. These include activities that address mental health promotion, addictions, and suicide prevention, crisis response services, mental health counselling benefits, treatment and after care, and support for eligible former Indian residential school students and their families so that they can safely address a broad spectrum of wellness issues related to the impacts of these schools.

These programs and services aim to reduce risk factors associated with mental health and to promote proactive factors, such as resilience-building behaviour, in order to improve health outcomes associated with mental wellness. The majority of the services are delivered by community health organizations, first nations treatment centres, or independent mental health counsellors. Health Canada acts as a funder for these services.

During the summer of 2016 an additional $69 million investment over three years was announced to address mental wellness needs in first nations and Inuit communities. This investment supports first nations and Inuit communities to enhance capacity at the local and regional level to provide essential mental health services that respond to current crises. These investments are being guided by the first nations mental wellness continuum framework and the national Inuit suicide prevention strategy, which were collaboratively developed by and with first nations and Inuit partners.

The development of the first nations mental wellness continuum framework, for example, has been recognized in itself as a best practice for its extensive consensus building and validation process, with first nations leading the dialogue. It speaks to the needs for a transformative whole-of-government approach that promotes mental wellness, reconciliation, and healing. It outlines a holistic approach to a continuum of mental wellness services with first nations culture as a foundation. First nations national and regional partners work in close collaboration with other federal departments to support the implementation of the continuum at the community, regional, and national levels. The continuum is grounded in indigenous social determinants of health and provides an understanding and a process for partners to plan, implement, and share responsibilities on critical elements beyond the direct control of the health system.

The national Inuit suicide prevention strategy has been developed by the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami on its own. To support this Inuit-led approach, the Minister of Health announced in July 2016, on the same day ITK launched this important framework, additional funding over three years. Community development, ownership, and capacity building must be present at all levels of service delivery to ensure that programs and services are relevant, effective, flexible, sustainable, and based on community needs and priorities.

The recent unfortunate events in the Wapekeka community again reminded us that it is important and urgent that we work with mental health professionals, authorities and local stakeholders as well as with our provincial partners so as to provide adapted, timely assistance to the families and members of the communities that are facing serious crises such as the one in that community.

In addition to responding to the Wapekeka crisis, we are continuing to work with the community to find longer-term and culturally appropriate solutions that will foster hope and mental wellness.

Culture is an important indigenous social determinant of health and a key factor in achieving community wellness. Health Canada supports land-based programming as one example that uses culture as a foundation to help individuals, families, and communities strengthen their relationship to the land and traditional culture. This, in turn, helps to achieve a balance of mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, by building resilience and addressing risk factors.

We have made investments for the deployment of telehealth solutions, and now most of the health centres and nursing stations are equipped with telehealth technology. An analysis done in 2015-16 indicated that there were over 14,000 successful telehealth sessions in first nations communities, offering a wide range of health services, including case conferencing and patient education. Furthermore, clinical consultations such as mental health sessions represent 9% of all clinical sessions in Alberta, and 13% in Manitoba.

Technology can help improve access to mental health services. It is particularly important to explore these avenues where communities are facing challenges in terms of service availability.

In line with the government's priority to engage on a nation-to-nation basis, what is needed is a consistent and progressive relationship between all levels of government and indigenous leaders that embodies mutual respect and partnership. Wellness in a community is a shared responsibility that can only be achieved and maintained through a fully collaborative approach to care that addresses indigenous social determinants of health and is rooted in culture and self-determination.

To achieve results, mental health services must be culturally safe, and developed and delivered with community partners. We have an obligation to explore new ways to deliver these services in order to be responsive to the need.

Dr. Wiebe and I will be happy to answer your questions. Thank you very much for your time this morning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Mr. Perron.

My colleagues, I'm sure, are looking forward to asking some questions.

Moving on, last but not least, from the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Anna Romano.

[Anna Romano, Director General, Centre for Health Promotion, Health Promotion and Chronic Disease Prevention Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to address this committee on behalf of the Public Health Agency of Canada.

Let me begin my remarks with some important definitions that I think will illustrate the public health imperative of supporting and improving mental health. Mental health is defined by the World Health Organization as “a state of well-being in which every individual realizes his or her own potential, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to her or his community.”

Mental illness, on the other hand, refers to mental health problems that are typically diagnosed and treated by mental health professionals. They include depression and anxiety as the two most common mental illnesses, as well as other less common ones, such as schizophrenia.

We know that mental illness is a significant contributor to poverty. In turn, the experience of poverty can negatively affect mental health. The World Health Organization has recently highlighted that the experience of poverty, inadequate housing, and problems finding work or getting an education are risks for poor mental health.

Understanding the impact of social and economic factors on mental health is key to developing effective public health programs. At the Public Health Agency we work upstream to help strengthen protective factors that promote positive mental health by helping Canadians build resilience and coping skills and prevent mental illness. Alongside other poverty reduction strategies, strong mental health can help break cycles of poverty.

The agency's work to promote mental health includes surveillance, testing programs—also known as “intervention research”—and support to community-based programs for vulnerable populations such as children, youth, survivors of violence, and seniors.

I would like to spend the next few minutes telling you about some of the investments the agency is making in these areas.

Given our focus on prevention and promotion, supporting vulnerable children and youth is a public health priority. Our suite of prenatal and parenting support programs reaches 278,000 at-risk children and parents in over 3,000 communities across the country each year.

We invest about $112 million dollars annually in three programs: the Canada prenatal nutrition program, the community action program for children, and the aboriginal head start in urban and northern communities. Families using these programs are facing challenging life circumstances, such as low income, lone or young parenthood, social or geographic isolation, situations of violence or neglect, as well as substance abuse problems. These programs support positive parenting, parental involvement, attachment, resilience, and healthy relationships, all of which are protective factors associated with positive mental health.

We know from program evaluations and participant surveys that these programs have a significant positive impact on both parents and their children, including improving mental health.

The Public Health Agency is also evaluating mental health promotion interventions to understand what types of interventions work, for whom, and in which context. Specifically, we invest $1.5 million per year on projects focused on children, youth, and their families that increase protective factors for mental health such as social support for vulnerable parents, secure parent-child attachment, resilience, the ability to resolve conflicts, and the ability to create healthy relationships. For example, the fourth R is a school-based prevention program that promotes healthy relationships amongst youth. The program includes role modelling of relationship skills, peer mentoring, bullying prevention, sessions on safe use of social media, as well as lessons to address and prevent dating violence.

The agency also supports community-based projects that strengthen both the physical and mental health of survivors of family violence. Poverty, unemployment, and economic stress are among the many risk factors for family violence. Family violence can cause serious health and social problems throughout the lifespan of a victim, including increased risk of behavioural problems in children, drug and alcohol use and attempted suicide in teens, and mental illness.

The agency supports projects across the country that reach vulnerable populations including street involved youth, indigenous and northern populations, and parents and children affected by violence. These projects also test the effectiveness of innovative health promotion approaches by measuring changes in mental health outcomes such as anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress injuries.

Poor mental health can impact Canadians at every stage of life, and seniors are no exception. Seniors with low incomes are more likely to experience social isolation, loneliness, and depression as well as ill health and a shorter lifespan. As you have heard from other experts, poverty reduction is not just about income support. It is as much about strengthening the bonds of community and having the ability to access the social supports around you. This is why the Public Health Agency continues to work closely with provinces and territories as well as the World Health Organization on the age-friendly communities initiative. In Canada this initiative has strengthened social inclusion in over 1,000 communities by bringing together seniors, caregivers, governments, and other stakeholders to help seniors remain active, engaged, and healthy in their communities.

The agency also works with partners to raise awareness and develop resources on seniors' mental health. For example, the agency provided funding to the Canadian Coalition for Seniors' Mental Health in collaboration with Shoppers Drug Mart to develop resources for seniors and their families on a range of seniors' mental health issues and to provide continuing education to pharmacists to support the dissemination of this information.

I will conclude here by emphasizing that investing in mental health promotion can help contribute to the reduction of poverty, but breaking the cycle of poverty and poor health requires a multi-disciplinary approach, given the complexity of the challenge.

Thank you for your attention and the time and energy you're devoting to this topic. I'd be pleased to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to all of you for those opening remarks and for staying on time.

Before we get started I want to just welcome MP Glen Motz. I know you're just sitting in today, but I'm very interested to hear of your experience with Medicine Hat, where we're going in a couple of weeks. So welcome aboard.

It's good to see Brigitte Sansoucy and MP Vecchio sitting in as well.

I want to take a moment to welcome the newly minted parliamentary secretary, Adam Vaughan. I'm very excited to have you here, and obviously given what we're going to be dealing with in the coming weeks and months, you'll be a huge resource for us.

Apparently, as of this morning, it is official that MP Dhillon will be joining us on this committee.

So welcome to everybody. Thank you.

Okay, Dan. For the record, welcome back, Dan.

On that note, over to MP Vecchio for six minutes.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thanks very much for coming out today.

Prior to become a member of Parliament, I was honoured to work in one of the MP's offices, and during the recession we saw a skyrocketing number of disability applications for the Canada pension plan. I have a couple of questions on that.

When we're looking at it, first of all, is there a way of dissecting those applications that were submitted based on mental health versus physical health? Did we see an increase in mental health issues over disability, because that's one thing I really did notice personally in the Elgin—Middlesex—London area?

Secondly, have you seen a correlation between the high unemployment rate and a high number of claims for the disability benefits, or is it just within our own riding that we saw that?

Whoever wants to answer, please go ahead.

Actually, I'll start with StatsCan. You may have information on that.

[François Nault]

I'm afraid we don't.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

You don't?

Anyone else? Doug?

[Doug Murphy]

Yes. Those are interesting questions. I will have to go back to the program experts on those issues and we'll provide a response to the committee. Thank you.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I greatly appreciate that. Thanks very much.

Do you have any information concerning the positive impact on an individual's mental health from attaining meaningful employment? Is there any information on that? Once you see people become employed, do you see their well-being improve? Is there any information on that?

[Anna Romano]

Maybe I'll just take it at a very high level. I don't know if StatsCan would have any data in that regard.

Employment would be a very important “social determinant” of health, as we call it in the public health world. If you have a job and you're contributing, your mental health tends to be more positive. I'm sure there likely are statistics that provide some evidence of that. Again, we could probably follow up with something on that.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Fantastic.

[François Nault]

Just to add to that, our surveys are cross-sectional. We ask people at the same time whether they are employed or not and we assess their mental health. On slide 9, you can see that a lower proportion of people who declare a disorder are employed, but the statistics don't allow us to do the kind of thing you are suggesting: to show whether you return to better mental health once you have a job. It would require longitudinal data where we know a person's state before employment and measure their state after employment, but that we don't have.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

It's not a problem.

Just looking at slide 13 from StatsCan, with the single parent information, I find it very interesting. We do recognize that there are a lot of issues for parents and single parents with poverty issues. Is there any data to show the mental health of those people who fall into that category of single parent because at one time they may have been married or separated, whatever the case may be? Is there any information that can show what they were before becoming single parents, showing where the mental health decline may have been due to poverty? Is there any information on that?

[François Nault]

Again, I think the question would be answered by what we call a longitudinal survey where we take a measurement at one point and then a measurement at the second point and try to disentangle what came first. These are very expensive surveys. I don't think we....

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

It's not a problem. I'm just going to carry on.

I come to this table with five children, so I feel as if I deal with mental health every day. It's true; sometimes it's my own.

Pierre and I have spoken about this. We've seen a real amount of effort put into the education and well-being of children, including counsellors at school and a variety of things like that. Is there any information by which we can show the decline in mental health of our youth? We've seen large statistics showing more substance abuse, more depression and anxiety. Is there some way we can weigh that back and compare it to data from the 1980s and 1990s? Do we have any information like that?

It may not have been of the scope. I don't think mental health was.... I went to high school in the 1980s. I don't think we focused on that. There were similar pressures at the time. Things have changed, and we recognize that. I'm trying to see if there is anything showing that we do put a lot of wellness into our schools right now. I'm wondering what the impact on our schools is and what the trigger actually was to put that in. We must have had some sort of trigger saying we need more for the schools. What forced that? Does anyone know?

[Dr. Jennifer Ali]

I'm not sure. I don't have that information, but there was a study that was released by Statistics Canada earlier this month that looked at depression and suicide among people aged 15 to 24. It also looked at people who sought help for their problems and looked at whom they asked. That study showed that the people aged 15 to 24 consulted a number of different sources, but 61% to 63% of those who sought help asked for informal sources, which included friends, family members, school teachers or principles, and co-workers. It was interesting that, of those who used that source, 88% of those who consulted a teacher or school principle thought it was very helpful or somewhat helpful. It shows that having those resources is very useful for helping people who are having problems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Go ahead, if it's very brief.

[Doug Murphy]

I have some information for the member: 30.9% of Canada pension plan disability claims are for mental disorders. I'm told that's on the rise. We'll get the additional information the member asked for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Excellent. Thank you.

We will go over to MP Long for six minutes.