Human Resources Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2017

[Michel Tremblay]

As I mentioned earlier, we are aware of the Fraser Institute research. We did look at it and we are going to do research to determine if....

I must say that municipalities do not say that these delays are extensive, just so we know.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Of course not.

[Michel Tremblay]

We are going to try to perform research to determine if what the builders are saying is true versus what the municipalities are saying. We will see what we can do.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

My next question is for aboriginal affairs.

When I was minister of employment and social development, I was approached by numerous progressive aboriginal chiefs seeking to change their land use policies in order to allow for the collateralization of individual housing units so that band members could get access to typical commercial mortgages.

I know that Chief Bear in Saskatchewan, for example, was leading the charge in this respect—and actually, the question is also for CMHC. I wonder if CMHC and aboriginal affairs are working with aboriginal communities to allow them the possibility of individual home ownership on reserve, if the community has decided it so desires?

[Charles MacArthur]

We do now work with first nations communities to try to come up with a land tenure that is mortgageable. Oftentimes, it's on.... We do work with a variety of first nations. An example is Tsawwassen First Nation, which is trying to do a large development.

We work with them so that it's mortgageable land with regard to the way they do the leasing and the like. With regard to on-reserve housing for first nations, I'll turn it over to my colleague. I don't know where that's at.

[Allan Clarke]

I can speak to that.

A number of first nations are advocating for a change in the land tenure on reserve. The Indian Act does not really provide the type of land tenure that most other Canadians take for granted, and it's a huge impediment to business development and of course to individual home ownership.

Manny Jules, the chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission, has been advocating for a different land tenure system on reserve, which fundamentally would change the nature of funding and financing—and mortgaging, because the Indian Act currently restricts mortgages and seizure of property on reserve. It would fundamentally change that.

There are a number of first nations that are advocating to look at that, but land tenure clearly remains a huge impediment.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

What changes to the Indian Act would be required to fix the impediment you've just described?

[Allan Clarke]

I suppose this is a personal opinion.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yes, please.

[Allan Clarke]

It's not really about changing the Indian Act, but about providing a level of jurisdiction that is appropriate to the nature of supporting government functions for first nations.

As to what we see and where things have been successful, Tsawwassen was mentioned. It is a self-government agreement, so it's outside the Indian Act now. However, for even those that are ostensibly under the Indian Act, there are pieces of legislation that Canada has developed, whether it's the First Nations Land Management Act or the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, that provide a jurisdictional and institutional framework for first nations to exercise that jurisdiction.

The current land tenure regime under the Indian Act isn't adequate. You would probably have to create a different piece of legislation that affords that jurisdiction to manage the land the way other levels of government would in Canada.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's excellent. Thank you very much, sir.

We'll now go over to MP Long, please, for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair; and thank you to our guests today.

For my first question, I know a few of my colleagues talked on it briefly, but I want to go back to CMHC and Mr. MacArthur about the expired operating agreements.

My riding is Saint John-Rothesay. I know we have many agreements that are obviously coming up and expiring. Can you explain to me again how the new money has been flowed to finance and accommodate the expired agreements?

[Charles MacArthur]

The expired agreements are in the amount of $30 million. We've gone out to those groups and we've re-established agreements with them that will flow the same amount of funding they were receiving prior to the expiry of their agreement. We're doing that on an ongoing basis, because agreements are expiring at different times.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

You're saying it's the same system, the same process. It's just an extension of the agreements.

[Charles MacArthur]

It's an extension for the same amount of the agreement.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

I also want to talk about stacking of subsidies. Previous government policy prevented the stacking of subsidies. For example, provincial rent supplements from health could help finance projects supported with capital grants from CMHC. That's currently not allowed. How can that be addressed?

[Michel Tremblay]

As we develop the national housing strategy and talk about coming up with new transformative programs and initiatives, I think we can certainly take a look at that. Obviously, the easiest way to address it would be to allow stacking.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

What's your opinion on that?

[Michel Tremblay]

Do you want my personal opinion?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Yes.

[Michel Tremblay]

I think it should be allowed.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Do you think it would be helpful?