Human Resources Committee on Feb. 7th, 2017

[Jeff Moore]

Thank you for your question.

If I turn to my previous comments, there's an investment of $732 million to meet as much as possible the housing needs on reserve, in Inuit and northern communities.

Also, just to add on affordable housing, under the social component under budget 2016, we have a total of $1.48 billion that we are investing for affordable housing. That includes money for the affordable housing initiative, including affordable housing for seniors, and for energy retrofitting for social housing, shelters for victims of violence, and also investments for homelessness. Those are key investments that have been made to ensure there is access to a variety of programs for different segments of the population to take advantage of, whether you're a senior, whether you're low income, or whatever your situation may be.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Your minister's mandate letter also states that he has the mandate to support the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs to improve essential physical infrastructure for indigenous communities. This refers to the housing outcomes for indigenous peoples.

Could you explain the co-operation between your two departments and the outcome of your joint efforts to reduce poverty in indigenous communities?

[Jeff Moore]

Thank you for the question once again.

In the context of reserves, as I mentioned, there is an amount of $732 million for the needs of Inuit, those in the north and those on reserves. If you are interested, I can provide you with the figures for the reserves only.

Under the current mechanism, we transfer money from our department to the Department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs' budget. It is up to that department to manage those agreements and the amounts of money with the communities.

Perhaps my colleague can elaborate on this aspect in terms of the arrangements with each community. The Department of Infrastructure and Communities assumes a coordinating role. We think it is really important to work with all the departments that will receive money under budget 2016 and to have a mechanism in place, as well as an idea of what the benefits for those programs will be because of our investments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we will go over for six minutes to MP Sansoucy.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first questions are about Nutrition North Canada.

Mr. Van Dine, in your presentation, you mentioned the consultation that took place between May and December of last year. The goal of the consultation was for the program to be more transparent, more profitable and better adapted to the culture of the communities. I am well aware that the report cannot be ready because the consultation finished in December. However, I would like you to tell us what types of comments you received throughout the consultation.

[Stephen Van Dine]

Thank you for your question and for your interest in the consultation process for the Nutrition North Canada program.

We talked with the members of about 20 communities throughout the north. We have just completed the report and we will post it on our website soon.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Without giving us a sneak preview, can you tell us about the types of comments you have received?

[Stephen Van Dine]

Gladly.

People have stressed that the cost of living is very high in the north. As for Nutrition North Canada, we received comments about the list of eligible food items and subsidies. We were also told about other food products such as traditional foods, and their crops.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Once the consultation on Nutrition North Canada is complete and you publish a report, what will be done to turn the comments into tangible measures that improve the situation?

[Stephen Van Dine]

We will move to the next step of the process, which entails developing policies for the program. We will soon be launching a process in partnership with some provinces, the Government of Nunavut and some indigenous groups.

We want to organize meetings to analyze the results of the consultations and discuss the possible options. After we talk with our partners, which will probably be done by next fall, we will be able to look at some of the options to move to the next stages of the program.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

As you pointed out, the main issue is food at an affordable cost. You talked about it a number of times in your presentation, but I still have a hard time seeing how we can fix it since there's a poverty issue.

[Stephen Van Dine]

It's a very complex issue that affects education, the economy and job opportunities. In order to solve the problem in the long term, we will have to develop a comprehensive strategy with the provinces, the territories, the private sector and our colleagues at Infrastructure Canada. That will reduce the cost of living in those communities, which will allow them to contribute more to the economy.

The Nutrition North Canada program has a role to play in the process. In the short term, we will focus on food prices, but we will talk with the other governments about developing a long-term strategy.

On December 20, the Prime Minister announced the creation of a new plan for the Arctic to replace Canada's northern strategy. This new plan will make it possible to meet the challenges you have identified.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We will not fix it this morning. The objectives are clear, but the ways to achieve them are less so.

You also mentioned 37 new communities. What are the new eligibility criteria that allowed those 37 communities to be added? Have the criteria been established according to the needs of the communities?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid we're out of time, but if you have a quick answer or otherwise we can come back to it later.

[Stephen Van Dine]

We will be able to provide the criteria after today's meeting.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We'll go over to MP Dhillon, please, for six minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Good morning. Thank you for coming.

I wanted to know how successful the nutrition north Canada program has been since 2010.

[Stephen Van Dine]

Depending on whom you're asking, you'll get different perspectives on the success of the program, but the goal that we had set out was to reduce the cost of goods to what they would have been had the program not been put in place.

There was a previous program in place and that information is often not known, but for the food mail program, we were able to reduce the costs further with the new program by about 5% in the first six months of the program. Then over the course of the next year or so, it came down by about 3.5%, 2%.

Presently what we're finding is that the program is maintaining a lower cost overall. Now we're finding a trend that while costs for the same goods are rising at about 4% or so across Canada, we've been holding it to no more than 2% or so in the north for communities that are participating in the program.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

When you say the success of the program depends on the perspective of the person you're asking, what do you mean by that?

[Stephen Van Dine]

What I mean is that in the positive sense is that we've uncovered that the issue of food security in the north is very significant and complex. I believe the expectations on the program, when matched against the size of the food security problem, tend to result in criticisms that could be placed in other parts of government or agencies that could be playing a role in solving the issue of food security.

The program has had its detractors because of this, from the scale of the problem, I guess, of the larger food insecurity question, but I believe we have good, strong evidence to suggest that the program has been working the way it was intended and making the impact we had hoped it would make.

I would finish my answer by saying there is an ongoing issue with respect to transparency of the program that has surfaced through the Auditor General's report and through others, to ensure that the subsidy dollars that are being provided are going directly to reducing the cost of food. We have been addressing that throughout the program.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Okay, so it's since the 2014 Auditor General's report.

[Stephen Van Dine]

We have made changes to address the issues that were raised in the 2014 Auditor General's report.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Okay. Between 2010 and 2014, 37 communities were neglected. Can you explain that a bit?

[Stephen Van Dine]

At the time the program was created, we had built it based on various reports and studies. One was by a standing committee on aboriginal peoples. We looked at the eligibility question from a variety of vantage points.

One piece that it would seem we have relied on quite heavily is the number of communities that were using the former program. As we dug deeper into the number of communities that were using the former program, we found there was a large span of time in which communities that had been accessing the program were actually not using it.

I'll have to get you the exact number of how many of the 37 were previously under the former program. But a number of them had been removed or put down to partial subsidies when we created the new program.