Evidence of meeting #44 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was city.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Stephen Elliott-Buckley  Simon Fraser University, Labour Studies Department, As an Individual
Nicole Read  Mayor, City of Maple Ridge
John Harvey  Director, Program Services, Covenant House Vancouver
Vicki Kipps  Executive Director, Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows Community Services
William R. Storie  Senior Advisor to Council, Corporate Administration, Township of Langley
Lorrie Williams  Councillor, City of New Westminster
Christian Cowley  Executive Director, Community Education on Environment and Development Centre Society
Teesha Sharma  Youth Services Director, Community Education on Environment and Development Centre Society
Thom Armstrong  Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia
Marius Alparaque  Program Coordinator, Pre-Arrival and Post-Arrival Programs, Multicultural Helping House Society

1:05 p.m.

Youth Services Director, Community Education on Environment and Development Centre Society

Teesha Sharma

In thinking about youth homelessness, the biggest thing that we need today, and that we're asking you guys to do, is to fund long-term housing, somewhere that youth can be supported. They need that instead of being thrown into apartments by themselves. I went through that. It led to six years of social isolation and suicide attempts.

The biggest way the federal government can help right now is to follow the precedent set by the skills link and new horizon programs, where you bypass the transfer payment system and go directly to community-based organizations that have the ability to reach these kids, develop relationships with these youth, and then support them as they go through and transition into adulthood.

That's what I would really like to see happen.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

At the beginning, you thanked us for being here. I speak for all of us in thanking you for being here. Lived experience is something that.... It's hard to encourage people to come out, so I thank you for having the courage to be here to speak to us today.

From the Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia, we have executive director, Thom Armstrong.

The next seven minutes are yours, sir.

1:05 p.m.

Thom Armstrong Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here.

I am with the Co-op Housing Federation of B.C. I'm also the CEO of Community Land Trust foundation of B.C. There are 14,500 non-profit co-op homes in the province. We're tied into a national network of 92,000 non-profit co-op homes. Our Community Land Trust holds about 226 million dollars' worth of assets in land and housing. We welcome the work of the committee and hope to contribute some practical suggestions for your consideration, which will be followed by a written brief with a few more facts and figures.

I guess I don't need to spend very much time on the link between the cost of housing and poverty. That's been pretty well established by some of the briefs I've seen. I was struck by some of that material when it dealt with the notion of how expensive poverty is. One estimate I saw was that it is over $7 billion a year to the health system. Imagine investing half of that amount in an affordable housing strategy.

In Canada today, we have four million renter households whose median income is less than $36,000 a year. One in five of those renter households spends more than half of their gross income on housing, which means they are foregoing other necessities of life and not disposable income. In B.C., we have just over half a million renter households. The median income in that cohort is just under $39,000 a year, and almost a quarter of them spend more than half of their income on housing. That's because the disconnect between housing markets and household income is systemic. In Vancouver, between 2001 and 2014, wages went up 36%; homes values went up 211%. In the last three years, the median wages for renters have increased on average 6.5%, and rents went up 11%. This situation is not improving. This is a structural issue. I haven't even included the cost of homelessness in those numbers, which some people estimate at more than $7 billion a year.

No wonder there have been repeated calls for a national housing strategy. The traditional response to that has been either capital grants or operating subsidies into new development or existing housing, either directly delivered by CMHC, or in a call to shovel money to the provinces with few or no strings attached. It might seem odd for someone from a co-op, a non-profit housing community, to be saying this, but I'm not here to ask for a return to the 1980-style housing expenditures. That just creates legacy obligations for the federal government that strand assets and equity in assets that were created 30 years ago.

What I want to suggest we do is to imagine what it would mean to redeploy the same level of investment to create better outcomes. We have a Community Land Trust foundation today that has 358 homes under construction in the city of Vancouver on land that we've leased for 99 years. When those homes are available within the next year, the average rent will be affordable to people whose income is 70% of median income and getting better over time. One in five of those homes will be available to people in the lowest-income quintile of our population. The outcome will be safe, secure, mixed-income housing, serving singles, families, seniors, and people with special challenges. They will be affordable in perpetuity because of our non-profit structure in our corporate charter. The best news about that development is that once it's rented up, the ongoing cost to government in subsidy to that housing will be exactly zero.

What if that model could be replicated on a larger scale? We're already making attempts to do that. We have projects in the pipeline in Surrey, North Cowichan, Vancouver, and we hope very soon here in Maple Ridge. I think there's a basis there for a federal strategy based on a social innovation that I think is quite remarkable.

I thought a bit about what I might suggest as a set of criteria that you might apply to whether or not the government should invest in housing, and I think you might want to think about these things. It should be uniquely federal. It should complement but not replicate what provinces ought to or are doing. It should be scalable. It has to respond to the real need and demand out there. You can't build a housing strategy around demonstration projects. It should create partnerships between government, community, and the private sector.

Above all, and I think this may be a real departure for the co-op and non-profit housing sector, is that we want to argue that the investment that the government makes in housing should be returned to the government over time. That's how we're going to use government capital to leverage that investment and attract private and community capital to the challenge of building affordable housing.

We think those solutions are available now. If you want to think of it this way, there are five major drivers to address if you want to have an impact on housing affordability. There are capital costs; that's the upfront equity that developers invest if they think they can make a 15% to 20% return after they've evaluated the risk of a particular development. There are financing costs, the long-term debt that's required to amortize the initial cost of building that housing. There's land, and in Vancouver that can be up to 40% of the cost of any new development. Then there are construction costs, and included in those costs, GST or HST and other levies. Finally, there is the cost of operating that housing over time.

The basic metric that I think you should bring to bear on this is that in order for a housing development to be truly affordable to people across the kinds of income cohorts that we're talking about, 40% of the equity in that housing either has to be given or lent to it over a very long period of time at a very low cost.

Of those factors, which are ripe for federal impact? I think there are two areas of low-hanging fruit here. One is land. Everyone talks about transferring federal surplus land into housing and no one ever does it, but in a community land trust, the transfer of federal surplus land for housing development would immediately reduce by 20% to 40%, depending on the market, the cost of developing that housing. And if it were vested in a community land trust, it would keep it affordable in perpetuity.

As for construction costs, I mentioned our Vancouver land trust development. By the time we're ready to rent up, we will have paid the federal government $3.6 million in GST. To put that in context, the cost of that debt is about $57,000 a year for every million dollars being paid in GST.

Access to upfront risk capital—long-term, patient, low-cost capital—those are the kinds of solutions that we think could be delivered. Say, you were ready to invest in short- and long-term equity funds, and a financing fund that would mature at around $2 billion a year, which coincidentally is what CMHC is now spending on ongoing federal subsidies for housing that has already been built. At maturity, a short-term equity fund pitched around the $2-billion mark would provide us with 40,000 to 50,000 affordable rental units a year, which is enough to address the estimated supply needs.

It's important that this asset be vested in a community land trust so that it would remain non-profit and affordable over time, something The Globe and Mail in its article yesterday called a speculation-free zone, which I think is a perfect way to describe the return on the investment to government in making that kind of housing strategy central to its focus.

I would welcome the opportunity to speak in more detail about this with you, but I think the opportunity exists here through financing mechanisms that are right now on the table to create a legacy for federal involvement in housing that's affordable across a wide demographic in perpetuity.

I want to thank you for your time today.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Now from Multicultural Helping House Society, we have program coordinator, pre-arrival and post-arrival programs, Marius Alparaque.

1:15 p.m.

Marius Alparaque Program Coordinator, Pre-Arrival and Post-Arrival Programs, Multicultural Helping House Society

Thank you very much. I am honoured and privileged that I can share our story with you.

Mike Cayetano, the executive director and vice-president of the Multicultural Helping House Society, was supposed to be here, but late last night he sent me a message that his dad is undergoing surgery, so he cannot come. I will be winging my story with you. I might ramble a little, but I will try to share it succinctly.

The core value of the Multicultural Helping House Society is to help newcomers. We are a settlement service organization. We are located on Fraser Street and have been in operation about 20 years—20 years last year. The president and founder of this society is Mr. Avendaño. He turned 88 this year, and he's still very bright, energetic, and dynamic in dedicating his life to helping others.

Talking about our programs.... As you know, since 2014 Filipinos have been the number one source of immigrants. We have overtaken the Chinese and the people from India. We are growing in numbers all over Canada, and we're approaching a million soon. With the total population of Canada being 35 million, we're about 2.8% of the population.

Last year, the federal government, Immigration Canada, granted us some funds to start a pre-arrival program in the Philippines. At first, we tried an online program, enriching and preparing Filipino visa holders who are coming to Canada for what life in Canada is like, their opportunities, understanding employment readiness, and all that. Since we started, and up to the middle of this month, we have served about 6,480 visa holders coming to Canada. They are scattered all over the different provinces. We have 20% to 25% going to Ontario, about 20% going to Alberta, and about 15% to 18% going to Manitoba. Here, in Vancouver, it's about 10% to 12%, and Saskatchewan is a big number as well. What I'm trying to describe is that, with the effective pre-arrival program, we have a continuum of service in helping the new immigrants as they settle in Canada so that their integration is smooth and they can settle their family quickly.

We are a multicultural society, so we also help other immigrants, from different countries. We also help the refugees who come to our doors, because we have a respite unit. They can stay there temporarily until they find employment.

Over the years, the people who have come to our door and whom we have reached out to have had different stories. Our program is not only settlement, but also programs for the community: for the youth, the seniors, and the caregivers. I mention the caregivers, because it is a unique group of the population that I think we have overlooked. Over the last 10, 15, or 20 years, we have brought into Canada live-in caregivers...and the whole temporary foreign worker program.

But when we created that opportunity, it also brought with it problems. I say this because when they come in they are not allowed to bring their family with them, and that has created problems that you are now trying to fix. The people who are here first are mostly women separated from their families for five or six years. When they arrive, relationship problems surface. After five years they are able to sponsor their families, and when they come, the kids are already teenagers. The husband may or may not come. We see in this situation fractured families because of the trauma of separation.

We're looking at huge numbers of people in this situation, and right now we are seeing the effects of it. Caregivers have brought in their families. Most of those caregivers are successful, even though they have sacrificed their quality of life by working two or three jobs to bring their family. But the trauma of separation and fractured families still has to be addressed. I say this because of the need created by the mental health issues that are brought on by this situation, the economics, and the high drop-out rate of the youth from our schools. We are trying to catch up. The Multicultural Helping House Society is doing its best to do some preventive measures by enhancing our services in the Philippines and also in the settlement programs here.

Where I'm coming from is, in our society today there is a group of people who need a lot of help. Mental health issues have been brought up where counselling is a must. Areas of employment preparedness, education, and career preparedness are issues. Housing is an issue.

This is just a story that I am sharing. I'll tell the story of Edward. Edward had worked all his life as a nurse here in Vancouver. One night I got a phone call from St. Paul's Hospital and was introduced to Edward. Edward was in the hospital because he had a stroke. His family abandoned him, he had to go to a shelter, and he needed somebody to pick him up and take him to the shelter because mentally and physically he wasn't able to do that. The following day, early in the morning, I went to pick up Edward from St. Paul's Hospital and brought him to a men's shelter on Dunsmuir.

Edward then called me, and he was really upset. He said, “Marius, can you please pick me up? I cannot stay here”. I asked, “Why?” He said, “During the day, I cannot go to my room and at night I cannot sleep. There are four or six people in that room. I'm sleeping in a cot. I cannot sleep. I'm stressed. Can you please get me?”

I picked up Edward and took him to respite housing at the Multicultural Helping House Society. As soon as he got there, his whole countenance just changed and he felt at home. Edward stayed with us for about a month, and then he decided he would go to the Philippines so he could get proper care there. I'm sharing this story because what we do impacts a lot of lives in our community and across Canada.

I just came from Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton, seeking partnership and collaboration with the immigration service organizations and societies in Toronto and those areas, and I am very glad to say that we are now working well. I refer to them the clients we have who are going to Ontario and all these other places. This is the thing that I would like to see and would like to have our federal representatives look at, because it's a real problem that we need to address.

Thank you very much.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Starting us off with questions this afternoon is MP Warawa.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to witnesses for being with us today, particularly Teesha. Thank you so much for sharing with us a little of your experience, and I'm glad to see that you're now through that part of your life and successfully moving on and helping others.

My focus today is going to be as much as possible on seniors. We have a massive demographic change happening so quickly in our Canadian population. Over the next six years we'll go from one in six Canadians being seniors to one in five, and in 13 years it will be one in four. If we don't prepare for that, we are going to have a homeless problem like we've never seen in Canada. Seniors need to be shown respect and dignity, especially in their later years.

Another premise is funding. We've heard requests for funding throughout the study on poverty reduction. All levels of government struggle with that, and if you increase funding for a program, it has to come from somewhere, either reallocating the money, taking it away from this program and putting it to that program, or increasing taxes. To increase taxes is always the choice of last resort.

Councillor Williams, you shared the story about a senior gentleman and in that story, if I understood it correctly, the rent was about to double. Mr. Armstrong, you alluded to rents going to go up 11%. I did a quick check online and in British Columbia there is a maximum that rents can go up. In 2013, the maximum was 3.8%. In 2014, it was 2.2%. In 2015, it was 2.5%. In 2016, it was 2.9%, and this year it's 3.7%.

I have a primary residence but when planning for the future I also bought an investment property, a townhouse, and my strata fees, maintenance costs, and taxes keep going up way more than that, but the maximum I as an owner, as a landlord, can raise rent this year is 3.7% and that makes it really difficult. Each year I get a little further behind. I subsidize that even more out of my pocket. That's a struggle as a landlord and in encouraging more and more people to invest in that.

Councillor Williams and Mr. Armstrong, where do those figures of doubling and 11% come from? Because in my experience, that cannot happen. Could you elaborate?

1:25 p.m.

Councillor, City of New Westminster

Lorrie Williams

I think I can. Renovations are different. When the developers buy a rental building, they will encourage everybody to move out because they're going to do all these marvellous renovations. Consequently, they are told that because of the renovations, they are not allowed to move.... They can come back, but because of the renovations it's like a new apartment, so they encourage them to get out. They will pay them one month's rent and some moving expenses, but most people don't want to leave their area. They want to come back, but when they come back, they're not coming back to the same apartment, theoretically. Now they're coming back to a new building.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

That would have to be with the approval of a building permit, and a redevelopment plan approved by the City of New Westminster in your case. Is that correct?

1:30 p.m.

Councillor, City of New Westminster

Lorrie Williams

That is true. Developers are allowed to do this, but we want a change in the B.C. Residential Tenancy Act so that anybody who is evicted because the landlord is going to do all of these extensive renovations must be allowed to move back at the same rate, and the landlord must be allowed only the going rate of increase.

February 17th, 2017 / 1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

What New Westminster is proposing is that millions of dollars could be spent on a building to upgrade it, to make it safer and more enjoyable, but they could not increase their revenues from that property. Is that correct?

1:30 p.m.

Councillor, City of New Westminster

Lorrie Williams

That's correct.

But they don't lose out; the profits just aren't as great. The people who were living there beforehand should be allowed to stay, and through attrition, when they leave, then they can bump the rent up as much as they like.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

It probably would not encourage redevelopment or encourage spending a lot of money to make the building more enjoyable if the person does not see a return on that investment. If they borrow that money from a bank and are not able to see an increase to pay that back, I think it would really discourage....

Am I wrong?

1:30 p.m.

Councillor, City of New Westminster

Lorrie Williams

No, I think the developers.... These are not people who own the building now. They are usually developers who come in and their aim is only profit, and that's it.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Now we have MP Ruimy.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you very much, everybody, for being here.

Again, Teesha, I'm glad we could get you guys in today.

I'm going to start off with Thom. As you well know, I'm a big fan of what you're doing. I think to be able to build low-income housing without money from the government, without waiting for any government to help you out, using those private funds and assets that you have is a fantastic idea. The only question I have at the start is why this is not happening everywhere. Why does this seem to be a bit of a secret?

1:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Thom Armstrong

I think it's that we're still trapped in that old model of government-based subsidy, either capital grants or long-term operating subsidies, which were the norm for the better part of 30 or 35 years. In today's market that's absolutely the most expensive way to deliver affordable housing, because it relies on a single funder, the government. I just don't think that's realistic anymore.

We heard in the previous question a great description of the central dysfunction in the private rental market. But that math changes if the owner of rental properties becomes a non-profit or community land trust whose only purpose in existing is to keep housing affordable in perpetuity. To just put our hands out and wait for government to fill it with money is not a realistic approach to developing affordable housing anymore. Government money has to be leveraged to bring private equity and community equity into the equation.

We've spoken before about New Market Funds, which is a for-profit equity fund, the basis of which is five charitable foundations putting money into the entity. They've put $11 million into our land trust development in Vancouver. That's patience equity. It comes out in eight to 10 years, but in the meantime it makes the debt coverage ratio on the conventional debt much more attractive to a traditional underwriter, and that gets the housing built.

When the housing becomes more affordable over time because more of the initial debt is paid down, we can take the equity investor out at a reasonable, but not full, market rate of return and then refinance the property to make it more affordable.

Housing will never be more expensive than it is on the first day the door is opened. After that it just becomes more and more affordable over time. If you can overcome the need for initial risk capital through a combination of government and private equity, you can do a lot.

We put $4.5 million out, at risk, on the land trust development before we had a single shovel hit the ground, and none of those costs were avoidable. We'll spend a lot more in costs that are avoidable if something doesn't change in the equation, that relationship between government and the private and community sectors.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Okay. If I understand correctly, let's say you want to come here to Maple Ridge. Do you buy the land or do you go to the city and say, “Hey, we have a proposition for you”?

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Thom Armstrong

Our first port of call would be the municipality to ask if they have municipal lands that they could partner with us on in whatever corporate form they think makes sense. That will automatically, depending on the market, reduce the cost of the equity required by 15% to 40%.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Does it cost the city anything?

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Thom Armstrong

Only the cost of the legal advice to put the partnership together.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Are there long-term operating costs?

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Nothing to the city...?

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia