Evidence of meeting #52 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pregnancy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
Absolutely, it's more important. I really like welding, and when I get my feet again I would like to go back, but my son is the absolute priority.
As an Individual
I would absolutely agree. We've talked about the importance of getting women back into the workforce because we have this replacement rate issue and all these people retiring. However, if we aren't encouraging women to be mothers, we're going to have this problem for years and years to come, because there are going to be no replacements coming up as we keep losing workforce members. I love being in the workforce, but motherhood is definitely my priority job as well.
Liberal
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you.
Thank you all for your testimony and being here.
As I stated earlier, this isn't my regular committee, so I'm just here filling in for the day. I do have one question. I apologize because I'm not sure if this was covered during the other days of testimony.
I know we've talked a lot here today about maternity leave and taking that time prior to your due date, but I have heard of another situation. This is following up on my colleague's question of hidden gems, and I think this would affect the trades. My question is really open-ended to see if anyone has a response. If a woman is on maternity leave, then goes back to work, but is then laid off right after that—and legitimately laid off along with other workers, but still, being the only one who was on maternity leave—she wouldn't be able to collect EI for being laid off because of the way that EI benefits are calculated. However, a male counterpart who was also laid off would. I would think this factor is predominant in trades, where work might be dependent on the type of jobs, etc.
If the committee intends to make recommendations but hasn't looked at this, can anyone provide insight? Have you seen this as a predominant problem? Do you have recommendations that maybe this committee and the government could consider to deal with the fact that it's not just prior to having a baby, but it's also the return to work, and the issues of maternity leave calculations if a person is laid off?
Liberal
As an Individual
I would say that you should maybe consider as a separate issue from employment insurance itself. If it's a completely separate program, then you continue to qualify for EI programs on their own merits, as they currently are, and take maternity leave away from that and create a different and new program that's built up to reflect the workforce of today. That might be a way to address your concern.
President and Professor at Brock University, Canadian Coalition of Women in Engineering, Science, Trades and Technology
I would like to talk about the fact that it's already a question that professional people, especially, have to work with. Engineers, for example, and even scientists like me, will not take the full year, because we know we could lose promotions and raises, and it's a very competitive environment. If you don't return relatively quickly, you may lose your job. I should say that even in Quebec, where a woman will try to avoid being seen as pregnant until the end, and will go back relatively quickly, it's just because we don't want to lose these kinds of advantages and probably lose our position. Even I went back after two months.
There are a lot of other complicated issues when we talk about these issues. The post-pregnancy period can be quite adventurous sometimes, as per what you had experienced before.
Former Chief Executive Officer and Director, Women Building Futures
At the end of day, of course, with these programs, it all comes down to cost. Who's going to pick up that increased cost? We need to go back and remember that.... Earlier, I had spoken to you about the average increase in income for women coming into a particular company, but the average increase that women see going into trades after being in Women Building Futures is 128%, which translates into a 47% increase in tax paid.
If we extrapolate that and think about the millions of women who could be contributing 47% more income tax, we solve any issue or question about where that money is coming from. It would support letting women taking longer maternity leave, a more customized approach, and actually making sure that she has her salary while she's extending her leave. That's where the money would come from.
Liberal
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question goes to Ms. Vasseur.
We received a brief from UNICEF Canada recommending that Bill C-243 be accompanied by federal legislation. It would provide for a new benefit, separate from the employment insurance program, and intended for pregnant women who cannot remain in their positions because of dangerous working conditions. It could be similar to the one provided in Quebec.
As I was saying earlier, and as Ms. Ballard also rightly said, Service Canada people could not handle it. In Quebec, public health authorities evaluate the risk posed by the work environment. A public health doctor makes a recommendation to the doctor looking after the pregnancy.
In Bill C-243, we are dealing with “calendar weeks”. This is the same situation after the changes in the recent budget that provided for 12 weeks of maternity benefits before the due date.
A witness came to our last meeting and told us that, in Quebec, workers who take preventive withdrawal in the last 15 weeks of pregnancy are in the minority.
In some workplaces, the first 20 weeks of pregnancy are when those working with small children are exposed to viruses. In some occupations, the baby is least protected in the first trimester.
In your view, should our approach be calculated on the basis of the risks rather than on a “calendar” approach?
President and Professor at Brock University, Canadian Coalition of Women in Engineering, Science, Trades and Technology
Yes, I quite agree. That is why I believe we need an integrated approach.
We must not forget that this all represents an investment. We are quite familiar with the problem caused by some people not wanting to have children. We must not forget that this is an investment. These children are the taxpayers of tomorrow. If, when they become adults, they are able to get good jobs and to keep them, it will basically make up for the investments made before they were born.
I believe that we perhaps tend to give too much consideration directly to the pregnancy only. But basically, we are talking about people's lives. This is more long term. People could be paying taxes for 50 years during their lives.
President and Professor at Brock University, Canadian Coalition of Women in Engineering, Science, Trades and Technology
That is how we have to look at the question.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Yes, indeed. It is interesting that you are telling us about integrated systems. As members of this committees, that is something we are focused on. We went all across Canada for our study on poverty. Personally, I believe that this vision also applies to our consideration of Bill C-243. Wherever we went, people talked to us about how important it is for different levels of government to work together better.
In Quebec, in the last few years, we have seen a mini baby boom. We cannot say that it is linked to the CSST's idea of preventive withdrawal. We cannot say that it is directly linked to more accessible day care. Conditions are favourable for women because of a combination of factors. Just now, it was mentioned that it is now possible to choose parental leave of 18 months at 33% of the salary without penalty. My colleague, who knows more about pension schemes than I do, used the example of a mother of five children. In the course of her career, if a woman has a number of 18-month periods during which she only gets 33% of her salary, her retirement income will be cut one day. We have to look at this globally.
It is interesting that you were talking about an integrated global vision, because things are not going to be settled in isolation.
President and Professor at Brock University, Canadian Coalition of Women in Engineering, Science, Trades and Technology
That is why I was saying that we have to see how things are done in other countries, like Finland and Denmark, where children are considered a long-term investment. It's not just about the pregnancy, the breast-feeding or the jobs, but truly about the entire system.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
It was also interesting to me that you were telling us about the International Labour Organization just now. Last June, I had the opportunity to go to Geneva where that organization was founded. I met Canadians who work there and who have expertise in labour organization, a knowledge of what is being done around the world. I certainly believe that our committee should call on their resources more often. You are right to point that out. In fact, that international experience could be really helpful for us in our deliberations. Especially given that Canada is a member of the ILO, we should gather that information to support our deliberations.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you to everybody.
Before we wrap up here, we have some administrative issues to deal with. Just to confirm, due to next week's change in the Thursday schedule to a Friday schedule, our committee will not be meeting next Thursday. To partially make up that time, we're going to start next Tuesday at 11. We originally were going to move that to noon to 2, and we're now going to go from 11 to 2, still meeting with the ministers from 12 o'clock to 2, but for that first hour we'll get through the committee business that we need to, and then we'll get right into main estimates. I believe that's going to be at Centre Block? Yes, so we're going to be moving to Centre Block.
Mr. Warawa, go ahead please.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Can I request that it be televised, or will it be televised?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I believe we're moving to Centre Block so that it can be televised and so we're close enough to the House that we don't have to cut the witnesses short for us to get to question period.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
You're more than welcome.
I think that is everything. I'd like to extend my gratitude to all of the witnesses, both for being here in person, as well as for taking time out of your busy days to meet with us via video conference.
Thank you to all the committee members and all of those who made today possible: the interpreters, the tech folk who brought you in loud and clear, and of course the people to my left and right who capture all of this information so we can build this report. Thank you, everybody.
Oh, sorry, before I hit the gavel, Mr. Warawa.