Human Resources Committee on June 6th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Can we come to order, please?

Good morning, everybody. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, May 4, 2017, the committee is commencing its study on advancing inclusion and quality of life for Canadian seniors.

Before we get going, I'd like to welcome member of Parliament Rachel Blaney to our committee, who will be joining us for at least this study.

Welcome aboard.

Karen, are you a stand-in or are you...?

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I'm standing in for a few meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Fantastic. That's excellent.

We're going to get right to the witnesses.

First, and I would think that what's most important with regard to this study is the reason we are here: the member of Parliament Marc Serré.

The next 10 minutes is all yours, sir. Welcome aboard.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to all members of the human resources committee. Thank you so much for all the work you do.

Thank you for inviting me to share my thoughts with the committee today. I'd like to begin by sharing some wisdom that was related to me by Senator Sharon Carstairs: there are as many ways to age as there are Canadians who are aging. Seniors are defined by how they live, not by their age.

Canadians have recently heard alarming statistics with regard to our aging demographics. This motion sets the stage for all levels of government to work towards servicing our seniors population across Canada. The time for action is today, and planning for the future is where motion number 106 comes in.

I want to thank the House of Commons for approving this motion on May 17. It sets the wheels in motion to formalize and develop a national seniors strategy.

As you perhaps know, my motion M-106 opens the door to dialogue with the National Seniors Council. A study will provide the recently reformed council with information on the best way to develop and implement a national seniors strategy that will bring about positive change in quality of life and well-being for seniors and those caring for them.

I would be remiss if I didn't thank the all-party seniors caucus—MPs Deb Schulte, Mark Warawa, and the NDP's Alistair MacGregor—for their work relating to seniors. This is work that goes across party lines to discuss ways to improve the quality of life for seniors.

Here's why I decided to focus my private member's business on developing a national seniors strategy.

My motion was inspired by two factors: first, my family and then, the seniors living in poverty on nothing but a fixed income.

I have heard about this all over my constituency of Nickel Belt, and in other places in Canada. My father became an MP in the House of Commons in 1968. He is the oldest in a family of 16 children. My mother is the oldest in a family of 15 children. We are a large, French-Catholic family from northern Ontario, with 60 aunts and uncles and more than 100 cousins.

Sometimes, family members take care of one, two or three people who are related to them. I am concerned about them. Of course, we should be there for our families. However, I know that not all Canadians have large families like mine. That is why we are studying ways to take care of our seniors as families get older.

What's more, we are now seeing a rise in the number of seniors caring for seniors. This includes seniors who are caring for their senior spouses, friends, and even parents who are aging in this stage of life. Often, these seniors are on fixed incomes and/or have certain mental or physical challenges of their own, making it difficult to care for their loved ones and even themselves.

It's been an honour to discuss this across my riding and with many MPs, and to talk with staff and seniors at assisted living centres, such as the Au Château home for the aged in Sturgeon Falls, St. Gabriel's Villa in Chelmsford, the Saint Elizabeth centre in Valley East, and St. Joseph's Health Centre and Finlandia in the City of Greater Sudbury, and throughout the riding of Nickel Belt.

I have met with people from a number of community organizations, like the golden age clubs in River Valley, Field, St. Charles, Verner, Sturgeon Falls, Lavigne and Azilda.

There are also the golden age clubs, like Warren, Mulville, Capreol, Chemesford, and Onaping-Levack.

Furthermore, as the northern Ontario caucus chair and vice-chair of the rural caucus and a member of the Algonquins of Ontario first nations community, I continue to learn and understand the needs and challenges faced by seniors living in rural areas and of indigenous communities across Canada.

What I have heard are stories of the resourcefulness of seniors, who want to remain independent and live in their homes for as long as possible, but are unable to afford the cost of making their homes accessible and friendlier to their needs.

I've heard stories of caregivers who work tirelessly to support their loved ones, but at a cost to their income and sometimes their mental and physical well-being. I've also heard stories of seniors who want to be happy, healthier, and active in their community, but are having a hard time making ends meet.

Above all, I hear stories of people who love their families and who want to ensure that they live long, happy, and healthy lives. That motivates me to focus my private members' business on developing a national seniors strategy.

I completely agree that one of the most important topics this committee can study, with regard to improving the quality of life of seniors, is more affordable and accessible housing.

According to the Canadian Medical Association, caring for the elderly in their homes and in their communities is one of the most cost-efficient ways in which Canada’s healthcare system can meet the needs of the seniors who are not suffering from complete dementia or are not gravely ill.

I would like to acknowledge the presence today of the president of the Canadian Medical Association, Dr. Granger Avery, who has been actively campaigning for this cause among MPs in the House of Commons and Canadians for the past three to four years. I would encourage all committee members and Canadians to visit demandaplan.ca

ou, en français, exigeonsunplan.ca.

This plan has already signed up 50,000 Canadians.

Thank you, Dr. Avery, for all the work the association is doing and your work on behalf of seniors across Canada.

The need to encourage treatment of seniors in their homes and to enable seniors to live in their communities as long as possible is something that nine out of 10 seniors have said is critically important to them.

According to a CMA study, most home care in Canada is provided informally by unpaid family, friends, and neighbours. In fact, the Conference Board of Canada report in 2007 estimated that unpaid caregivers provide ten times more hours of home care than paid workers. Put another way, in 2007 roughly 3.1 million people delivered unpaid care to seniors in Canada, which is over 1.5 billion hours.

A Senate report called “Canada's Aging Population: Seizing the Opportunity” by retired Senators Carstairs and Keon in 2009 noted that family and friends provide about 80% of all home care to seniors living in the community and up to 30% of services to seniors living in institutions.

In my opinion, federal and provincial governments need to participate collectively in a study to assess the current system of financial support. That could help seniors to receive a basic income that would allow them a respectable and dignified retirement, as well as to reduce poverty among the elderly.

A significant element of the seniors strategy should also identify and provide support for improving seniors' social determinants of health. These include income, social status, social support networks, education, employment, continued working conditions, the social environment, and physical environment, and should provide for personal health practices, and coping skills, while also looking at gender and culture.

It should also consider the way in which the federal government can support the expansion and improvement of leisure, social and support programs for the elderly, particularly for Canadians living with Alzheimer’s disease or dementia. There are fewer programs of this kind for people with those conditions, and they generally cost much more than others.

In fact, as a permanent member of the status of women committee, I heard Tamara Daley, a professor CIHR research chair at York University, tell the committee last Tuesday that these programs cost up to $30 to $40 a day, a cost that many seniors can't afford, unfortunately.

A great example of a centre that offers such good programming in Ottawa, which is here today, is the Good Companions Seniors' Centre.

Thank you, Monique, and the board for being here today to support this motion.

This day program offers seniors minimal assistance for $18 a day. It's those types of programs that we have to look at for best practices all across Canada. I'm glad to see they are here today, as well as seniors from these centres.

I would also like to thank Carolyn Pullen from the Nurses Association for being present and also helping with this motion.

In closing, I would like to express my gratitude to the committee for undertaking this study in order to discover how the government can both support seniors today and prepare them for tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to your questions.

Thank you very much, meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, MP Serré.

First, we have Mark Warawa up for questions. Go ahead.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Marc Serré, thank you, and congratulations on motion bill that is before us here today.

The issue of an aging population is a very serious one for Canada to grapple with, and it's not just Canada. All the western nations have an aging population. It was recently announced that there are more seniors in Canada now than young people. Right now, one in six Canadians is a senior. In five and half years approximately, it will be one in five. In 12 years it will be one in four. This is a major shift in the population of Canada.

We need to get ready for that because 50% of provincial and territorial medical costs are already incurred for seniors. If that percentage changes, it means that we're very likely to have increased costs of medicine in Canada. On the other end of the equation, I believe that four and half Canadians are working to support seniors in Canada, and that will be changing to two and a half, so fewer people will be working to support seniors, but the needs will be greater.

We need to be smarter and prepare for this tidal wave, as some describe it, of grey. Canadians are living longer and are healthier, but Canadian seniors still have unique needs.

Marc, I want to thank you for raising this issue. It's one that's been raised at this committee for the last year and a half, and it's unfortunate that we didn't begin this study earlier. With hindsight we should have, but finally we're dealing with this.

I also want to thank Dr. Avery and the Canadian Medical Association for the incredible work they've done. I've been honoured to sit on a panel with Dr. Avery in my riding of Langley, at the Langley Senior Resources Society. The CMA did an incredible presentation there and met with Canadian seniors and answered questions. Also, Dr. Avery spoke to the parliamentary seniors caucus and provided great input and advice.

What I've heard, Marc, from professionals in senior health care is that it will not be possible in those 12 short years to prepare and build enough housing to house this growing population, and it's not what Canadian seniors want. They would like to age in place. Therefore, it is critically important to train health care professionals in home care, geriatrics, and palliative care if we are to be able to take care of our aging population. It's achievable and affordable. As you pointed out, it's much more affordable to have somebody age in place—but we need the staff to do that.

Taking care of a newborn baby is very heartwarming and satisfying, so it's very popular to train in pediatrics, but not so much in geriatrics. It's important even just to talk to seniors, and thus for us to ask how we can get people to volunteer to visit rest homes, to show our aging population dignity and kindness, for somebody to show them their value and visit them when they're lonely. People who have retired and have the time now to be able to do this and who will also be living in places like these pretty soon say they don't want to go near these places any sooner than they have to. They don't want to visit.

It's a dilemma. How do we engage Canadians to show love, dignity, kindness, and caring to our aging population? Also, as you pointed out, 85% of the support for seniors comes from friends and families, and in many cases at great personal cost physically and financially. How do we support them?

That said, I do acknowledge your great work. Thank you.

But first, I do hope the government will some time soon to appoint a minister for seniors, because I think its slowness in acting is because it doesn't have an advocate for seniors. There's a minister for youth, yet there are more seniors than youth. There's a minister for youth but not a minister for seniors. I hope you'll bring that message to the Prime Minister, that we need a minister for seniors, and we need to get a plan, a strategy, which we're going to deal with here.

Are you also advocating for appropriate funding in such a plan, because a plan without an engine, without an allocation of funds, training, and work with the provinces and universities.... Will you encourage the government to make sure there's appropriate funding in the next budget allocations to be able to make the plan work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

He has left you literally five seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'll give you 30 seconds. Go.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Five seconds. I'll use 10.

This is part of the work of the committee here and of the seniors' caucuses and members of Parliament who are currently working closely on this issue. Obviously, we have Minister Duclos, Minister Philpott, and Minister Qualtrough looking at the issue of accessibility, and even Minister Hajdu. We have several ministers right now looking at ways to improve the quality of life for seniors across Canada. So yes, I will continue advocating closely, working with you, all the members of Parliament here in the committee, and the caucuses, to ensure that we're moving forward. We've already made some investments in our first two budgets, but moving forward, how we can better the quality of life for seniors?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, and over to Mr. Long, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to MP Serré, first off, for your presentation and for taking the time and having the commitment to bring motion 106 forward. I think it's something that's very necessary for the country, and the fact that we're going to spend some time now studying this and talking about seniors and their issues is of utmost importance, I think.

To echo my colleague, the numbers are staggering, and I certainly learned that during the campaign of 2015, going door to door. My riding is Saint John—Rothesay in Atlantic Canada, and certainly has the highest percentage of seniors in Canada at 20%. Compare that number with Alberta, which has 12%. So Atlantic Canada is aging, and we know that nationally it's the first time that we have ever had more seniors—I think it's 5.9 million seniors versus 5.8 million people under 14 years of age—so the numbers are staggering and this obviously presents a challenge for governments. As people get older, they need more health care and home care, more government care. I think you'll obviously see the demands on government continuing to grow as time passes.

We certainly have a challenge in front of us, but I think my first question to you, MP Serré, will be about our going door to door and talking to seniors and learning about seniors' issues. There are certainly more single seniors, more single female seniors across this country, but I want to ask you to expand on the need for day programming for seniors. How do you feel the federal government can support this better? What's the best approach?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you for your question, and thank you to all the MPs here for the work you're doing in your ridings also.

When we talk about day programs, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have the Good Companions of Ottawa here. I know that all of you have had the opportunity to witness some of the seniors' programming in your ridings. Expanding the day programs is so important. Moreover, when we look at the aging population, there's the issue of Alzheimer's disease and dementia, and we also need to look at how to get our aging population active and participating in the community. Also, we have challenges in some rural areas with transportation. I've heard that in rural Canada versus urban settings.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

How do you feel the federal government can support this?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Basically, one of the things is that we have to be working with the provinces. It's crucial. When you look at the cost of a hospital bed for a day, it's $842; a long-term care bed is $126; and a day program is $4 or less. So how do we look at investments? We've invested already in the home care program for the provinces. Part of the home care program has components that try to encourage more day activities.

I've heard from many organizations and seniors how important it is to be active, and when I reference the senator's report of 2009, one of the critical elements of getting seniors involved also helps in many other areas.

From a federal perspective, motion 106 sets the wheels in motion for a dialogue and to get the provinces involved, looking at best practices and how that leads local organizations and municipalities to follow through. This is the first time in the history of the House of Commons that a national seniors strategy has been approved by it. It gets the ball in rolling for that.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you for your comments. They're great, and I appreciate it.

Can you drill down and speak specifically on how important you think seniors' day programming is for seniors and people with dementia and Alzheimer's disease?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

It's one of the number one issues. When we look at income security, income security is number one, but when we look at programming, activities in our communities to engage seniors are crucially important.

One of the components of your study here that I'm looking forward to seeing will be the social determinants of health from a seniors' perspective, and I invite the committee to ensure that you invite witnesses to look at ways to improve day programs, as well as best practices to share across the country.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

That's great. Thank you for that answer.

I want to switch gears. You led me to it, actually, with your comment on seniors' income security. I was very proud to be part of a government that made changes to the GIS for single seniors living in poverty, with an increase of 10%.

Can you elaborate how the federal government can be a better partner in helping seniors with income security across the country?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Please keep your response brief.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Obviously, as indicated, the 10% increase in the GIS is the first increase in 30 years. More is needed. We have a large percentage of seniors living in poverty. The GIS helped over 900,000 Canadians, mostly women. In regard to income security, we need to find ways from a federal perspective, and also provincially, to ensure that we have more disposable income for seniors such that we have seniors living with dignity in retirement.

So how do we find ways to provide more income for seniors who are living in poverty? They then have the choice to look at day programs. They could choose the areas in which they want to participate. Right now, because of the low levels of income for seniors, they're limited with the choices they have, to participate in, for example, the day program that you mentioned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

MP Blaney, you have six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here having this conversation after many years of advocacy by the NDP to have a national seniors strategy. We're at a breaking point. We really need to face that reality, that this is something that is much too late. However, I'm still glad to be here.

Of course, I want to express my appreciation to Dr. Avery from the CMA. I'm very proud that he comes from a community in my riding and understands the diversity of seniors across this country, and what it means to be in a smaller community and what it means to be in a larger community.

Your predecessor, the NDP MP for Nickel Belt, Claude Gravelle, worked for years to create a bill on a national dementia strategy. His bill was specific. There were requirements, actions to be undertaken by the Minister of Health to initiate a strategy. Unfortunately, his bill was defeated by a single vote in 2015 because a Liberal MP forgot to stand up.

The motion we have in front of us does not offer that level of required action. Don't get me wrong; I'm really glad that we're here and that we're advocating for long-term NDP policies, but what's really missing for me in this motion is action. We will be spending countless hours creating recommendations for a parliamentary report that might one day help shape a national aging strategy. I think your motion says, “provide advice on implementing a National Seniors' Strategy”, but what assurance do you have that one day we really will have a strategy that's effective and moving forward for seniors in Canada?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you for your comments.

On the dementia bill, 167 other MPs voted against it, too. I just want to clarify the record in that regard.

Essentially, the action we're taking today—we've added dollars for affordable housing, we're developing a national 10-year program—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, so the reality is that you don't have one. There are more studies—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

—and we're setting it in place.

We do have this, and we'll be looking at.... This will be setting the stage. What we're looking at here for the first time is that there has been now an expression—