Human Resources Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2017

[Glenn Miller]

I think the most practical way is to offer examples. In research that we've done, we searched high and low for examples of age-friendly communities. It isn't a concept that's well understood. You usually receive a big blank when you ask the question, so you have to go out and find these places. That's why I'm suggesting that CMHC could play a role in helping us find examples, because people learn by doing.

One example I like to use is that people are really influenced by what they see in the Saturday homes section and the real estate section. If they're not seeing in the paper what they're interested in, they're not going to be looking for that example. The more examples that we can integrate into a strategy, the more it will alert the development community that there's a huge opportunity here.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You know, this summer I spent a couple of hours riding scooters with a group of seniors in my community of Campbell River, and some of the challenges they face were quite shocking. They talked about the age-friendly community and those specific transportation challenges they have, simple things like making sure the sidewalks work for them.

[Glenn Miller]

Could I just add? One thing that people don't realize about scooters is that there are no regulations for them. You could have your licence taken away, as many people increasingly do, for various reasons, and you could go down to your local store and purchase a scooter and be out on the road again. In Europe it's considered a very, very significant problem.

In places like Niagara Falls in Ontario, where there's a larger concentration of older people, I've spoken to the municipal officials there. They see it as a huge problem, because their sidewalks are cracking and aging and they can't keep up with the maintenance. They have some very nasty accidents.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Now we'll go over to MP Robillard, please.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for you, Mr. Miller. I represent an urban riding. Could you tell us more about the importance of urban development strategies and their impact on seniors' quality of life?

[Glenn Miller]

More than 60% of the senior population live in single-family dwellings, and the majority of those are in suburban neighbourhoods that have those characteristics that I mentioned that are very difficult to deal with if you can no longer drive. It has been established that we're a suburban nation, so many of these suburbs are in our metropolitan areas. We have created an urban structure that is very difficult to deal with, so we need a strategy whereby, on the one hand, we stop making the same mistakes we have made in recent decades, and on the other, have a proactive initiative—the kind of thing the CMHC does at the dwelling basis—and do it on a neighbourhood basis to adapt and refit our neighbourhoods. This is something you can make some progress on over time.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Miller, what role should the federal government play in urban development so that social planning adequately reflects the needs of seniors?

[Glenn Miller]

The federal government can give resources back to CMHC that were once available to undertake research, and use this for an education tool to collaborate not only with provincial, regional, and municipal governments but also with the private sector, because the scale of the requirement is too large for any one sector to act alone.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

My next question is for Ms. Albert.

Can you tell us more about how your work and suggestions in the area of social planning have specifically benefited seniors in your community? How can your approach to social planning benefit seniors in your community in the near future?

[Marika Albert]

The model of co-housing that I'm talking about is currently very beneficial for the seniors who are living in a co-housing complex. They talk about how they feel safer and how they feel more included. There's a common area where they go and gather on a daily basis. It's almost like returning to living in a neighbourhood where you know your neighbours. They have the ability to bring in care and share those costs. They share utility costs. It's a bit of an extraordinary social situation, and I think people who are living in that community would tell you that they are benefiting greatly from it and feel that they can stay there as long as they possibly can. It would be amazing to see these models stretched across the country.

Co-housing is generally for seniors who have higher incomes. Housing co-operatives could also implement these kinds of care models, and they already exist. I think we could implement these models at a fairly low cost, but at the same time they would receive the benefits of seniors living in official co-housing environments. I think while we're allowing seniors to stay in their communities, they are more socially engaged, and it's a lower cost.

I'll leave it at that. Thanks.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Very good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now for six minutes, we'll go to MP Fortier, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Vaughan.

Thank you all for your input. It really helps us delve into the issue of housing from this interesting standpoint.

As you know, our government has already announced major investments in affordable and accessible housing over the next decade. If we had to focus on just one initiative, which one should it be?

I'd like to hear from each of the witnesses on that, in about 10 or 15 seconds, if possible.

Ms. Albert, you brought up co-housing. What steps could the federal government take to support that model in a practical way?

[Marika Albert]

Thank you.

I think the federal government can support it through financing. That's one of the biggest ways they can support, and then by providing resources and funds to develop—

Can you hear me?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes.

[Marika Albert]

—and also resources to help work with communities to develop these models more and invest in them.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

Mr. Lee, would you like to respond?

[Dr. Ian Lee]

I can speak on affordability. I have done a couple of papers on affordability, and of course it's a problem, but the idea that large numbers of our seniors are homeless is simply inaccurate, empirically.

This isn't to trivialize the issue; it's to say that the issue is not housing per se, although it is for a small number. Rather, it's getting services to the person in the house. That's the issue. It's not the house. It's getting the service to the senior in the house. It's called health care.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

What about you, Mr. Miller?

[Glenn Miller]

Thank you.

Just focusing on co-housing for a minute, which is a very interesting model, one of the drawbacks, as I understand it, is that the legal framework is a bit of a barrier to people because if they enter into an agreement, they don't understand how they can exit the agreement. The federal government could facilitate a discussion and research on how to simplify the strata or the condo approach to co-housing.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

All right. Thank you.

Ms. Westhaver, do you have a suggestion as to how the government should continue to invest?

[Susan Westhaver]

My heart is with the hospice, so any money you want to throw toward hospices in Canada would be wonderful.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Very well.

Lastly, it's over to you, Mr. Davidoff.

[Dr. Thomas Davidoff]

A few of you have mentioned zoning and using federal enticements to improve zoning, and I'm going to expand beyond aging. If you want affordable housing, you cannot allow municipalities like Vancouver, West Vancouver, and affluent suburbs around Toronto to take land that sells for $20 million an acre and mandate single-family housing. Allowing more multi-family housing is critical to generate rental housing at the lowest end of the income distribution.