Human Resources Committee on May 11th, 2020

[Wendy Therrien, Director, External Relations and Research, Universities Canada]

Good evening.

Thank you for inviting us to speak with you today.

As for investments in research, we are indeed very pleased to see the investments that have been made. I would also like to highlight the key role that universities continue to play every day in finding both short-term and long-term solutions to major problems in our society. Like you, we hope that the government will make further investments in research.

As for international students, we share the concerns raised by our student colleagues today. We want to ensure that students still in the country will get the chance to return to school in September.

As Mr. Davidson said, we are also concerned that a number of institutions across Canada and Quebec are heavily dependent on international students. Several factors will determine whether they have the opportunity to return to Canada. Because of this uncertainty, we are asking the federal government to work with the provinces to find solutions to make up for lost income due to the closing of borders and the absence of international students in colleges and universities.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

I am going to come back to the Canada emergency student benefit, or CESB, that we talked about earlier. Mr. Mellilo raised some concerns from industry, in Quebec and across Canada. People are afraid that the CESB will be perceived as an disincentive to work. We can see that many have applied. Although fewer jobs will be available this summer, help is needed in the fields. People need students and are afraid they will not try to look for a job.

I was a student myself not so long ago, and I am sure most of them are hard-working and want to get out of lockdown to go to work, because they have bills to pay. However, I am already getting messages from students in my constituency saying that they are looking for the CESB form online because they want to apply already, although the summer season has not quite started yet, at least not where I live. Most jobs are not posted online.

Although the famous CESB is being relatively well received in the network, do you think it could be a disincentive to work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please provide a short answer, if you can.

[Matthew Gerrits]

My apologies. To whom was that addressed?

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

You may share your comments with us, Mr. Gerrits.

[Matthew Gerrits]

Thank you.

I cannot speak for every individual student's circumstance. As I answered to Mr. Melillo, I know that there are many students who may be interested in taking these roles, but we are speaking about hundreds of thousands of students who are out of work. Obviously there are going to be some who are not going to be able to find work, including even taking into account the agricultural sector.

Therefore, we do know that there will be some students who are looking for the CESB application link. I have friends who have asked me already, and I also know students who are looking for work or are already employed. I don't think we are setting students up to cheat the system. There is now a declaration as part of the application that asks students to be honest about whether they are able to do this.

Part of this crisis is recognizing that you are looking out for your neighbour, and part of that is taking these programs on good faith. We hope that students will be able to do that. It's part of our civic value. It's part of what we expect of students as citizens and I hope that they will do that.

I apologize if my answer isn't as comprehensive as you might have expected or wanted, but that is what I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Gerrits.

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Ms. Kwan, please, for six minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

My first question is for Mr. Davidson.

The government has come through with the wage subsidy program, but it doesn't apply to government agencies, municipalities, universities and so on. I'm wondering how that is impacting you. Is that a concern for you?

[Paul Davidson]

Yes, and it is a concern for our members right across the country as well. Every sector is facing challenges as a result of the pandemic, and universities have done their level best to keep people whole through to the end of April and through the beginning of May.

As the campuses have been closed over a number of weeks, there are labour issues to be addressed. The wage subsidy would be a very effective tool for our members. I know the intent was to make sure that publicly funded agencies didn't participate in the wage subsidy, but it's important for members of this committee to know that more than half the revenues of the universities are from non-public sources. Universities are now publicly supported, not publicly funded. In some cases, for some institutions, more than 63% of the revenues come from non-government sources. The wage subsidy could be a very valuable tool to help mitigate job loss as we navigate the pandemic.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

What I'm hearing, then, is that you advocate for the government to lift that restriction for universities.

The other question I have related to this is about the research sector. What implications have there been in the research sector with universities and colleges not being eligible for the wage subsidy?

[Paul Davidson]

I think as you'll see, in the way the government responded in the first weeks of the pandemic, they were taking real care to make sure that people who were most affected as individuals were addressed first. The investments that have been made to support research really do support the early career researchers, the graduate students and the post-doctoral fellows to try to keep their salaries whole during the disruption that's happening on campuses.

Two things are happening at once. The universities are ramping up their COVID research, but they're also having to stand down their non-essential or non-urgent research. That carries costs. We've worked with the federal government over the last several weeks to make sure not only that individuals are, to the best possible, kept whole, but also that the surrounding costs, the institutional costs of research, get met to keep as much of the workforce whole and keep the research enterprise ready to go as the economy reopens.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Are you telling me that the matter is now resolved, then?

[Paul Davidson]

We're grateful for the initial investments that have been made to support research. There was a rapid response mechanism to advance COVID research. There was a second round of that. There's been a third set of investments in research as well.

However, it's important that the research enterprise remains able to move quickly in these challenging times, so we continue to work with federal officials on a range of elements to support the research enterprise.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If there were an ask you could provide to the government at this point in time, what would that be?

[Paul Davidson]

Specifically on the research environment, it's to fund those costs that will help keep the research enterprise ready to go as the economy reopens. There have been terrific investments to advance COVID research and terrific investments to support individual researchers whose work may be disrupted through the pandemic, but we need to keep paying attention to the full costs of research as we move forward.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm going to turn to the student side of the issue.

The student support subsidy came in at less than its $2,000 counterpart, the CERB. Could our student representatives comment on that?

[Matthew Gerrits]

If you ask somebody if they would like more money, I think it's their job to say “yes”, but ultimately, when this program was announced, it was announced at that level. When we look at the expenses of the average student, at least between rent, expected tuition contribution, and food, we see that the amount will be satisfactory to get students through those particular living expenses. We do have concerns over regional living costs, which I'm sure you can appreciate.

At this point, our main concern is not necessarily the ability of students to meet expenses. We know that this is a very, very big concern, but there is a concern around equity. A student who is out of work, the same as any other Canadian, gets $1,250, while the other Canadian gets $2,000. That's definitely something we would like to see rectified if there were to be another iteration of this program.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's interesting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—because the students I'm hearing from in my riding are saying that they need the $2,000. It's interesting that not all students require that, from what I'm hearing from you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan, and thank you, Mr. Gerrits.

Next we'll go to Mrs. Falk for five minutes, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for their comments.

We know that students and young Canadians, like all Canadians, are facing uncertainties and disruptions due to COVID-19. As the committee evaluates the government's response to this health crisis and looks forward, our students are a very important consideration. The Canada emergency student benefit is providing immediate and necessary financial assistance to students, but we know that the impact of this health crisis will go well beyond an immediate financial need. Ensuring the success of students has to take a long-term approach. The long-term success of students will, in turn, have a positive impact on our economic success.

In the previous Parliament, this committee did a study on experiential learning. In fact, it included contributions from Universities Canada, Durham College and the University of Waterloo. During that study, we heard over and over again that experiential learning was invaluable to ensuring long-term integration into the workforce. Whether it's apprenticeships, co-op programs, work-integrated learning, volunteerism, or internships, these are all opportunities that go beyond a short-term financial opportunity by connecting young Canadians to the workforce.

One government program that has long helped local economies and students find job opportunities is the Canada summer jobs program. During this health crisis, the minister extended the deadline for the program and increased the funding eligibility of private and public sector employers. The downside of these announcements is that they came with no additional funds. In effect, increasing the funds available to these employers so that they can receive up to 100% of the minimum hourly wage for each employee means that there could be only half as many jobs.

As we heard today, Conservatives have also proposed a new program to specifically match students with summer jobs in the agriculture sector. A program of this nature would have an immense impact on my local economy here in Battlefords—Lloydminster, but obviously in other ridings around Canada as well.

This question is for anybody. As we navigate this health crisis and eventually come out on the other side, what role do you see experiential learning playing in ensuring student success?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Who would like to try that one?