Human Resources Committee on May 28th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I take your points about the speed in eligibility put out by the federal government on this.

You have written about the specific impacts of this crisis on retail and how that recovery will be different from previous ones as a result of those impacts.

What changes from the previous recovery policy do you think that the government needs to look at this time?

[Leah Nord]

That was just issued this week, as I referred to, so thank you for that question.

We had done the Canadian survey on business conditions and we were able to slice and dice the data in any number of ways, including by sector. We also sliced it by who owns the business. The retail sector, as I said in my comments, was hit hard, fast and first.

A lot of businesses and employees, including business owners of businesses that are female-owned, were hit hard in that initial stage because of the composition of the retail sector. Historically, in previous recessions, what you'll see is first sector in, first sector out, or first sector back in. We don't believe that is going to happen with a lot of these.

In the first instance, it's something that I alluded to before. It's inclusive growth and having those inclusive voices at the table. If retail isn't at these tables and these discussions, then it can't be part of the solution. We have a consortium of six business associations, and the Retail Council of Canada is one.

I think we also have to look at how to drive consumer spending and economic development. I heard from the previous session the idea that we can't tax ourselves out of this, that we have to grow, and there's any number of ways that we can do that, including getting people back into the workforce so that they have income to spend.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

You said that the Retail Council of Canada is part of it. I know that the Business Council of B.C. has come out against the idea of what's been floated by the Prime Minister and John Horgan, the premier of British Columbia, regarding a 10-day sick leave.

What is the Canadian Chamber of Commerce's opinion on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Give a short answer please, Ms. Nord.

[Leah Nord]

We are considering it. I think that we have to discuss the difference between the short term—this opening and recovery period—and in the longer term, as I alluded to in my comments.

It would be part of a larger discussion and of EI reform writ large.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Albas. Thank you, Ms. Nord.

Next we have Ms. Young for six minutes.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses. It's very insightful information that you've given us tonight.

I want to start with Mr. Kucheran. I am also sharing my time with my colleague Mr. Long.

Mr. Kucheran, I was so glad to hear you talk about women in the trades. It has always been a challenge to get more women involved in the trades. I'm wondering if you think this crisis will make that even more of a concern, or whether you see this crisis as an opportunity to show young people, especially young women, that the trades are worth considering.

[Robert Kucheran]

It is an opportunity for us all to engage, particularly with women. As I said, community benefit agreements allow greater access for women to get into the trades. As I mentioned, there's the success story in Newfoundland. That was made available because of the CBAs and the requirement to have women as a part of the workforce.

When I was growing up and entering the trades many, many years ago, typically what happened was your dad or your uncle took you out of the basement because you were hanging around—not playing video games but playing Pong back then—and grabbed you by the scruff of the neck and took you to the union hall to be signed up. That doesn't exist anymore. Parents often encourage kids to be university graduates or college graduates.

Without that, we need somebody else to step up on behalf of women in the trades, as well as indigenous groups, under-represented groups, new Canadians—all of those categories. The government has an opportunity to institute community benefit agreements as part of the infrastructure plan, as part of the funding requirements. I think it's a great opportunity. We can achieve the kinds of results we have achieved in Newfoundland anywhere else in Canada.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Ms. Nord, I've had a number of opportunities over the past two months [Technical difficulty—Editor] across southern Ontario, and I was struck by how complimentary chamber members have been about the government's quick response to this crisis. I think all of us can agree that it was important for us to act very quickly. I certainly love what you said about a team Canada approach.

How do you think this crisis will change the way the chamber interacts with government and with chamber members?

[Leah Nord]

I think it is one strength of the Canadian chamber and our network that we have a footprint across the country in these smaller communities. I heard questions earlier about getting information out to the small businesses on Main Streets across the country. The chamber can really serve that purpose.

As I alluded to in my remarks, we're looking to reinvigorate the economy by using our local chambers and that network to form these collaboratives, to allow the time and space for those small and medium-sized businesses along sectors or even just together to have that collaborative time and space to look at labour forces, to discuss the crisis, to share best practices with each other and with other chambers as well.

We do a weekly webinar call on a whole range of subjects that has probably between 300 and 400 members, and we often bring in experts from the government as well to talk about some of these programs and explain how to apply and so on and so forth.

That's really the strength of what the chamber does. I see this continuing or reinvigorating our role for Canadian business across the country.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Good. Thank you very much, Ms. Nord.

I'll pass it on to my colleague Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, Chair, I want to take just a few seconds to correct the record on eligibility criteria for the CECRA. In the last panel my colleague from the NDP implied, I think for the second time now, that only mortgaged commercial property owners could apply for the CECRA. That is not true. Non-mortgaged commercial property owners can apply for the CECRA. That's clearly stated on the CMHC website.

Mr. Kucheran, I have a question for you. I want to thank you. I want to thank you and leaders like Matt Wayland, Steve Schumann, and the CBTU, who represent workers who build and continue to build our country.

My question to you is this, sir. Do you see federal investments in construction, infrastructure, and the development of emerging industries, like the SMR industry in my province of New Brunswick, playing a key role in restarting our economy and getting the workers that the CBTU represents across the country back to work in good, well-paying and substantial jobs as we emerge from this crisis?

[Robert Kucheran]

I totally agree. I think the government has a real chance to engage with us in our list of shovel-ready projects. That includes your province as well. I think those types of jobs or those types of projects are important to the overall health of Canada. More importantly, they'll contribute to the local economy and put people back to work.

I know it's been slow getting back. There are industries in New Brunswick that are slowly getting back, but we're going to need critical infrastructure projects in every province, including New Brunswick, to kick-start the economy. As I said, with certain provisions in those agreements, we can engage more local and under-represented groups and minority people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Kucheran, and thank you, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Kucheran, I'd like to ask you a question. When you testified before the Standing Committee on Finance regarding government contracts, you talked about assistance in meeting the conditions, and that's normal. There is a call for a recovery, and it will be necessary to rely on infrastructure, but there are conditions to be met in terms of occupational health and safety.

Have you had any response from the government to the requests you've made? If so, does it meet the requirements for recovery in your sector?

[Robert Kucheran]

Thank you for the question. As far as I understand it, you're asking what the government has done to continue with the success.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Has the government responded to your requests?

[Robert Kucheran]

Oh, okay. Well, we applaud the government for what they have done so far with incentives like the CERB program.

As well, I realize that health and safety tends to be a provincial matter, but the federal government, through the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, can ensure the supply of PPE. That supply is critical to keeping our industry going. We were deemed essential. It was because of the procedures and protocols put in place, with co-operation with our employer partners, that we were able to keep our COVID-19 infection rate down. If you look at our industry, we were affected minimally by that. That's in large part because of the availability of PPE, so I'm happy with the government's actions in making that available. We will continue to need those levels of supply in all sectors in construction.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

There's another question I can't help but ask because you talked about the percentage of women in the construction industry.

It's a reality in Quebec. We have incentives to encourage women to work in non-traditional jobs. However, women who do so often leave their jobs because the working conditions put in place by the businesses ensure that there is no equality and that there is discrimination.

From what you see in the workplace, are there still things that can be done to correct this situation?

[Robert Kucheran]

Yes. I mentioned the percentage of women in Newfoundland, which is very good. That high rate still exists today, so the retention factor is very successful there. In Quebec in my own particular trade, under the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, we have a very high percentage of women.

There are a number of factors in trying to attract women into the trade and also in keeping them in, and a big part of that is having mentorship. We have mentorship programs that help women. The best thing you can do for an apprentice is to keep them employed and, second, make sure they're taken care of while employed. By that, I mean having somebody to watch over them, somebody to say they're okay, they're doing fine, somebody to have their back. With the mentorship program we have, we get all that, so that has helped.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have one last question to ask, and it's for Ms. Nord.

Ms. Nord, you spoke in your testimony about the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB, and the Canada emergency student benefit, or CESB. You recommended a comprehensive review of employment insurance. With respect to the CERB and CESB, our party has proposed that support for workers and students be accompanied by employment incentives.

Do you think these benefits are an incentive, and if not, how could they become an incentive?

[Leah Nord]

Thank you for that question, MP Chabot.

As I said in my remarks, the Canadian chamber feels that the emergency programs that have been put in place, be it the wage subsidy, the student benefit—I don't want to use all these acronyms—or the emergency subsidy, the CERB program, were important. They were necessary and they were crucial, but as we move forward, we need to ensure that we tie Canadians to the workforce to the extent possible.

We need to support them when they don't work and aren't able to, and we feel that the best way is to return to the EI program, to reform the EI program. There have been years and years of band-aids with a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a lot of piling on, but I think this is a real opportunity for us to revisit it and to have all parties at the table—labour, government and business—to take a look at it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Thank you, Ms. Nord.

The last questioner for the evening will be Ms. Kwan

You have the floor for six minutes.