Human Resources Committee on April 24th, 2020

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

The answer to that is yes, and has been since the beginning. We have tried to put measures in place that will best position us as a country, post the public health crisis, to come out of the economic crisis equally quickly. A lot of the measures we've taken have been targeted at setting up businesses and individuals to be best positioned to recover as quickly as possible.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Would it be helpful for this committee to start to think about those recovery steps as well, so we get ahead of the curve, as opposed to responding with legislation in real time?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

The more brains we put on this the better, so absolutely.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

On the stackability of the benefits, I respect the fact that there are provincial jurisdictions here, but are we working with the provinces to make sure that the benefits we put on the table are stackable with existing provincial benefits?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

As I said, we sure are. We've had different levels of success, and different provinces are taking different actions. B.C., as I said, is just waiving it, and it's completely stackable. Ontario, on the other hand, is doing a 50% clawback, and I understand they're redirecting the money their clawing back into other income support measures for people who are on other types of support that aren't necessarily eligible for CERB. Different provinces are taking different approaches.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Finally, indigenous youth and other equity-seeking groups, particularly in the black and African Canadian communities, often get pushed out of the way so that stronger equity groups get to the front of the line. What are we doing to make sure that those who often are the most marginalized don't get displaced as other equity-seeking groups use their power to get to the front of the line or their experience with programs to get to the front of the line?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

We have many voices around our table, and yours is one of them. Certainly at cabinet, we regularly ensure that these perspectives are.... Whether it's desegregated data that we need as we look to see who is being impacted by this crisis, or we need to see how the GST credit impacts different groups of Canadians differently, there's been a concerted effort, as has been the case for years in our government, to turn our minds to different subsets and different kinds of intersectional realities within the population. You're not just someone with a disability; you're someone who is a woman with a disability. We're really mindful of this.

I don't know if there's anything in particular the department would like to add on the—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Actually, I have only a little bit of time.

Lastly, on the Canada summer jobs issue, I recognize that rural Canada issues—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You're inside of two minutes to go, Mr. Vaughan. You asked me to remind you.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Okay, I'll leave that comment for another day then.

I'll submit to the Green Party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Mr. Manly. You have about a minute and a half, and welcome.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak, Adam.

I'm wondering, Minister, if there's some flexibility that could be built into this program for the CERB. I have a couple of constituents. One went on medical leave last year for surgery. She spent eight months off work, so she didn't make $5,000 last year, but then came back to work and lost her job because of COVID-19. I have another person who left her job because her father had congestive heart failure. She left her job to be able to take care of her father, and she was just getting ready to start work again, but because she had quite her job to help her dad, she's not eligible for the CERB either.

I'm wondering if there's some kind of flexibility that could be built into the system so that these different circumstances could be taken into consideration for people.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Those are two very specific fact patterns, and my heart goes out, in particular, to the second one. Let me see if I can get back to you with specific answers on those two fact patterns, but to some extent, the legislation that created this benefit has the parameters that it does. I'm not sure that the response will be positive, but let me see, moving forward, what I can do with those particular kinds of situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Manly.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to come back to the new programs announced for students, including the Canada student emergency benefit. I don't know if you have heard the comments about the new jobs being announced in certain sectors of the economy.

While helping students is beneficial, how will we reconcile this new aid with student employment needs?

In other words, given the programs in place, will students still be attracted to minimum wage jobs? Won't we do the opposite of what we wanted to do?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

We worked closely with student organizations to develop these measures. They asked us for assistance, not only in the form of a benefit, but also as loans and grants. They asked us to create employment and volunteer opportunities because young people want to work and serve their communities. That's why we made a number of announcements yesterday about all of these measures.

So it is not just about the benefit. If it were, what you are saying could turn out to be true. However, people have asked us to create these opportunities and these jobs, because they want this experience, and if they cannot work, they want to serve their community. That is why we established the Canada student service grant.

Those who have volunteered for a certain number of hours over the summer will be eligible to receive a Government of Canada grant of $1,000, $3,000 or $5,000 at the end of the summer.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Despite your answers, it is important for us to have all the details.

Please consider our remarks on the fear about the harmonization we would like in several sectors. Coordination with the provinces is key, and these programs should improve the current employment situation and not cut anyone off.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I understand exactly what you are saying.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have one more question...

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Chabot, I am sorry, but your time is up.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Don't be sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Kwan, you have two and a half minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, I would like to address the Canada summer jobs program. While there are changes to address the COVID-19 crisis and organizations can now have 100% of the funding for the positions, the global funding for all of our ridings has not increased.

In my riding of Vancouver East, even in the best of times, more than half of the organizations are recommended for funding, but there's no money available to support their work in support of students. In this instance, only about a third of the organizations may be able to get some resources; the vast majority of them would not. I hope you will look at that issue and ensure that there's an increase in budget in order to support the work of students on the ground.

The other issue I want to bring up is that, for the student benefit that was just announced, the Prime Minister used the deadline of December graduation for students to qualify for it. I have a constituent who wrote immediately. She graduated in November as opposed to December 2019, and now she is out.

There are these nuanced situations, and that is hugely problematic. I hope there can be flexibility with respect to that.

Perhaps I can get a quick response from you, Minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

Let's work together on that flexibility. The benefit itself will be legislated so there's an opportunity to build flexibilities into a number of the decisions.

I will say that the biggest challenge for a lot of us on all these programs has been the reality of having to set thresholds. When you put a line in the sand, someone's on one side of it, and someone's on the other side of it. Trying to quickly deliver a program with nuance or graduated complexities becomes tough. I do hear you, and we can certainly work together on making it as flexible as possible in the time we have.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Just on that, Minister, wouldn't it make more sense to go with a universal direct payment, because then you wouldn't have these nuanced problems for all of the programs? That would make it so much easier for your officials and for the government and, most important of all, it would make it so much better for the people who are in need. I would be happy to work with you in light of the situation we're faced with.

Likewise, Canadians who are overseas do not have access to this program because they have to actually be here in Canada. If they are trying to continue their studies abroad, they will not be able to get the support. When they are abroad, they may well be in the situation where they cannot get employment because of COVID-19. I want to bring that to your attention as well.