Human Resources Committee on May 1st, 2020

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'm not exactly sure how, then, you'd ensure that those workers who are going into a care facility, where we know 80% of the deaths are happening, would have sufficient PPE. What role could you play perhaps in the future?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mrs. Jansen, that's your time.

Over to Mr. Turnbull for six minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the officials for joining in today. I really appreciated the opening remarks, and I am sure you are all working as hard as the rest of us to deal with the many concerns that are out there.

I know of the importance of workplace safety and health at this time. I think there are many federally regulated workplaces that the labour program is responsible for, in normal circumstances, ensuring that Canadian workers' rights are protected through a safe work environment. I know these are not normal times at all. This is a unique moment in history, and one we've never experienced before.

Can you clarify what the labour program has done for us to address the concerns that have arisen from the COVID-19 pandemic?

[Chantal Maheu]

I'll say a few things to give a context.

In late 2019 and early 2020, we started hearing of cases in China of COVID-19. We were alerted that something might be going on, and we went back to our plans for different epidemics. As you know, we learned from SARS and H1N1 earlier, and so as the risk seemed to grow, and the risk of a pandemic seemed to grow, we started taking steps to prepare for what it could mean for the labour program and what it could mean for the federally regulated industries.

I will turn it over again to Gary to go over what we did at that point.

[Gary Robertson]

What I would like to share with the committee is that, while our operational posture should pivot, our procedures remain the same, because we have a very good approach to dealing with all types of risk, including biological risks. Some of the operational posture changes that we made, including suspending in-person proactive activities, do not suggest that we don't do proactive work, but we ourselves could be a biological risk. We're a vector for an organization, so our interest was in restricting movement so that we didn't cause problems for the organizations we were inspecting.

We also, in early March, suspended without special reasons visits to vulnerable communities, including indigenous communities, because we were similarly concerned that we could spread COVID-19 through our interactions with those communities. Having said that, we have focused very significant effort on our posture, specifically as it relates to the complaints and, as you would expect, refusal-to-work complaints.

We work very closely with our colleagues at Transport Canada and the Canada Energy Regulator because they have occupational health and safety responsibilities as well. For Transport Canada, it's for on-board activities in the marine, the aviation and the rail sectors; and for CER, as you would expect, they relate to pipelines. We also then, obviously, worked with stakeholders to make sure that they were reminded of their responsibilities around a hazard prevention program and updating those plans. I think that, with some of the good work that was done, more folks were better prepared than they otherwise would have been.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great.

I'll ask some follow-up questions about federal sector employers. Just how well are they adapting their response to the health and safety concerns of their workers? Do you think that appropriate measures are being put in place? Can you give me an overview of that?

[Chantal Maheu]

I think that, like every enterprise, at the beginning people were not totally sure what to do, but what we've found is that our employers have stepped up really quickly to address the risk of COVID-19. As you can imagine, the federally regulated sector involves international transportation. It was one of the vectors of the crisis, so airlines and the ports were some of the places where people started worrying about this the soonest and started taking action. At that time, some of the guidance was still evolving, so we really have seen them step up.

What we see too is that the employees themselves and their unions have raised concerns, and we've seen a lot of very constructive discussion where employees and employers get together and say, “We're not sure what to do in this case; we used to do it that way. I'm very close to my co-worker. Are there different ways of doing it?”

We've seen everyone trying to find solutions that are very practical because each workplace will be different in terms of what it is doing. People have stepped up; people have adapted. We see, in some cases, that teleworking has also been a way of reducing risks.

In a way, the federally regulated sector is one of those that, because it's so critical, has maintained operations throughout the crisis, unlike others, so they will be impacted by some of the reopening, but they have maintained most of their operations.

I don't know, Gary, if you want to add to this.

[Gary Robertson]

Yes, I would just add one thing that I think committee members would be reassured by.

In the labour program, we enjoy a tripartite approach to managing issues. That means that, on any given issue, we involve all stakeholders, government stakeholders as well as both employer and employee reps, so folks are generally better informed than they otherwise might be, and folks are better positioned then to identify the risks and to mitigate them. That relationship has been preserved from the junior analyst level right up to meetings that the minister has had with stakeholders. We're monitoring the situation and, as the deputy has indicated, there has been an awful lot of work done to make sure that things are being managed as safely as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Over to Ms. Chabot.

You have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for their presentations.

Today is International Workers' Day, and we are hearing from Department of Employment and Social Development officials. This provides an opportunity to acknowledge that we understand everything that had to be done and that is yet to do in response to this unprecedented crisis. We must never forget that 8 million Canadian workers have found themselves in a very difficult situation. I do not think you have forgotten, but I still wanted to mention it.

You touched on the topics of health and safety, which are federal jurisdictions, as is the topic of psychological health in the workplace. Here, in Quebec, the economic recovery will happen slowly. The Commission des normes, de l'équité, de la santé et de la sécurité du travail has produced some guides and is providing support for businesses. We saw what happened at health care facilities.

My question is one that you, or the Minister of Employment and Social Development, get often. Service Canada has completely shut down its offices, and many people have been critical of that. There are federal employees, and people need services. Now that there are clear health and safety rules, can we hope to see the offices open back up in the short term, with the necessary workplace health and safety measures in place?

[Chantal Maheu]

Thank you very much for your question. I'll answer it in two parts.

First, Lori MacDonald, the chief operating officer for Service Canada is responsible for the management of Service Canada offices.

I will, however, answer the question by talking about the resources available to businesses. We are in the midst of a crisis that has an impact on health and safety. Although our operations are now virtual, we have maintained a 24/7 phone line. We are in contact virtually with the businesses that need our services, and we are able to meet demand—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. We had this same issue in our COVI meeting. The translation and the original audio are both going at the same time. Is it possible to bring the volume of the original audio down and the interpretation up a bit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Doherty.

Madame Maheu, it's possible the problem is that when you are switching languages you aren't switching the toggle to indicate that. It's something we have encountered in the past.

Is that a reasonable guess?

[Chantal Maheu]

Is this better? I chose the French stream.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Is that working for everyone?

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, I don't get the English interpretation. I checked my language bar and it is switched to English. I don't know if it's just me. Is the rest of the committee hearing the English interpretation fine?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

It could be because you're not using a headset, but I'm not sure about that.

Can we hear from the IT folks as to what the nature of that might be, or is that the interpretation department?

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a point of order as well. I noticed especially on my time, although it's going to happen here again, that all these technical difficulties make it quite ineffective to ask questions.

I was given exactly six minutes, but most of that time was spent repeating things, dealing with challenges of connectivity and so forth. I think it's really important, if we want to take this seriously, to ensure that people get six minutes of productive time. That's what I'm hoping you can do somehow, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Jansen. In fact, you got seven minutes, not including the interruptions, to make up for what happened to you. I'm trying to exercise my discretion to achieve the precise goal you've mentioned.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Just to reiterate, it was very unproductive time when most of it was spent with a lot of connectivity issues. It is a challenge. I get that we're trying to work with the technology that we have at hand, but it would be great to have a better discussion that actually gets something done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Chabot on a point of order.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I had been recognized. I was waiting for answers and started to get some, and then there was a point of order. I want to make sure that I'll have a chance to finish my speaking time, which should be six minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, you will.

Mr. Dong, you're back in business.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

No, Mr. Chair, I'm still not getting the translation. I got a little bit and then it got cut off. If it continues to be problem, I'll raise my hand again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay.

Ms. Chabot, you have three minutes.