Human Resources Committee on Oct. 28th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome, colleagues, to meeting number two of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. We have Mr. Kent in the room, and everyone else is appearing virtually.

The meeting is pursuant to the House order of 23 September, 2020. Proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow. First, members—in this case only members, because we don't have any witnesses today—may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of “Floor”, “English” or “French”.

For Mr. Kent, proceed as you would when the whole committee is meeting in the committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself.

For Mr. Kent, your microphone will be controlled as usual by the proceedings and verification officer.

I remind you that all comments by members should be addressed to the chair, and when you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.

With regard to the speaking list, please use the “raise hand” function.

For you, Mr. Kent, please signal to the clerk, and he will text me, and we'll get you in and get it coordinated.

Colleagues, we have four items that I hope to get to today, and we are in committee business, so the floor will be open to any items you may wish to add. To give you some sense of what we hope to accomplish, Ms. Kwan has given notice to the chair of a question of privilege. We will also, I hope, discuss and adopt the subcommittee report. We will discuss the plan of action for the indigenous housing study and appearances by ministers on the main estimates, and anything else you may wish to add.

I want to raise this before I cede the floor to Ms. Kwan.

You are first on the speakers list, Ms. Kwan, so I am inclined to recognize you in order to address the question for which you have given the chair notice. Mr. Vaughan isn't here, but you absolutely have the right to raise it in his absence. It may be more expeditious if it were done while he was here in case he wants to respond.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

On a point of order, Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Not yet, Mr. Dong. She has her hand up on a point of privilege, so hang on.

With that, I recognize Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I see MP Vaughan on my screen here via video conference through Zoom, so he will be able to hear my comments.

Thank you very much to the committee members for letting me have this opportunity.

I wish to raise a point of privilege. As the first meeting dealt with the election of the chair, this is the first opportunity for me to raise this question of privilege, since I'm not a permanent member of the HUMA committee.

At the last HUMA committee meeting, prior to the prorogation of Parliament on August 17, MP Vaughan specifically named me in a completely misleading claim, which I was not able to correct since I was not a sitting member of that meeting. It was misleading to the witnesses and to the members of this committee. He said the following, Mr. Chair:

We have been asked by some of the opposition parties to end Reaching Home and to send the dollars straight to provincial capitals and not to front-line services, particularly in B.C., by the member for Vancouver East, Ms. Kwan. What would the impact of that be on some of the prairie provinces—Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta—where support for homeless services, in particular harm reduction, has been very slow to meet the front-line needs of a COVID response?

Mr. Chair, I want to be very clear to the committee members that at no point have I ever said that the government should end the Reaching Home program, nor has that ever been the NDP position, for that matter. What I have said repeatedly is that the program is not enough, that it is deficient in addressing the homelessness crisis. I have, on numerous occasions, called on the government to do more than the Reaching Home initiative. I have called on the government to provide capital funds, in collaboration with the province, NGOs and with municipalities, to provide support to address the housing crisis.

I'm also on the public record, Mr. Chair, in support of the “Recovery for All” six-point plan. As well, I have written to the minister on these points. The correspondence clearly states that the government is not doing enough, and as well calls on the government to expand the Reaching Home program.

Mr. Chair, suggesting that I've called on the government to cancel the program is blatantly false. It's misleading the committee members. It's misleading the witnesses. I wish to correct that record.

Mr. Chair, for your information and for the information of committee members as well, I have attempted to resolve this issue. I have made two attempts to reach out to the minister himself to talk about the housing crisis. The minister, over the course of the summer, came back to me and suggested that I should talk with Parliamentary Secretary Vaughan. My office reached out to MP Vaughan's office to say that in my meeting to speak with him, I wish to address this issue. Since my office has reached out to him with respect to that, we have not had any response from him or his office.

This brings us to where we are today. I think it is absolutely essential that the record be corrected.

Mr. Chair, I would ask, through you, to ensure that the witnesses who were present at that meeting receive the correct information so we can ensure that people are not misled.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Go ahead, Mr. Vaughan, please.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] staff to search our databases for any contacts for outreach from the honourable member's office or from her personal account to my personal account or to the office account. I, unfortunately, have no record of any outreach.

What I will speak to is her position that we flow the money directly to the provincial government and bypass the community entities and the community advisory boards—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is no interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Mr. Vaughan, you don't have a headset there, do you?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

No. Unfortunately, my office computer has collapsed, and IT is on its way to figure out what happened. I apologize; I don't have a headset with me right now. This is the best I can do from an audio perspective.

If I speak closer, does it help?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want to make sure I have interpretation. It's not the interpreters' fault, but your comments, Mr. Vaughn, have to be understood by French speakers.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Should I continue, or is the translation not picking up my voice?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Hold on one second, Mr. Vaughan.

Mr. Clerk, is there any way...?

It was better when he was closer to the microphone. Okay, move closer to the microphone and we'll see if we get translation there. Please be as concise as possible.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I apologize.

As I was saying, I have searched my database and searched my mail accounts, and I have had my staff searching the general account. We have no record of any inquiry from MP Kwan's office. I have no trouble meeting with her now, today, tomorrow, any day. I think it's an important principle that parliamentary secretaries remain open to all members of Parliament and take that responsibility seriously. I'm happy to chat afterwards to follow up.

In particular, what I would like to take issue with is the assertion that she does not seek to virtually end and functionally end the Reaching Home program. She has repeatedly told me that she would rather see the money diverted to provincial capitals for distribution rather than to community entities or CABs, community advisory boards. She questioned the effectiveness of the CABs. In fact, she said she couldn't pinpoint where the dollars were being spent in which riding. Of course, we understand that CABs and community entities don't serve ridings—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Chabot, go ahead.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

It is very unfortunate that, at our first real meeting, we aren't able to understand what the parliamentary secretary is saying in response to the point of privilege because of interpretation issues.

I suggest you slow down when you speak, Mr. Vaughan, so the interpreters can do their job. My ability to follow the discussion is being hindered, and that's unacceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vaughan, speak slowly and as concisely as possible, please.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I'm not sure it's a point of privilege, first of all, but secondly, the position I have had expressed to me by the member opposite in meetings with the minister and in other conversations is her preference for the Reaching Home program to fund provincial governments directly and to bypass and eliminate the use of community entities and community advisory boards because she didn't feel that they were distributing the dollars as effectively as she wanted them distributed and she wanted to know what was landing in her riding or not.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's just simply untrue.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That would effectively end the program, because the program is specifically designed to fund front-line services and is done in such a way as to bypass provinces where front-line services have been cut in recent weeks, months, and years.

We think it's too important an issue to be lost in disputes. I will not—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Just a second, Mr. Vaughan.

Go ahead, Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It seems as though it's going into a debate. I think MP Kwan is raising an important matter, but I think we have other important committee business to get to. Is there a way that we can expedite this process, not in any way taking away from MP Kwan's very relevant point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I agree with you, Mr. Vis. Please conclude, Mr. Vaughan. I agree with his point that we are well into debate.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I appreciate that. I will make every effort to reach out directly to MP Kwan's office to continue this conversation.

On that point, if she has reached out and we haven't responded, I do see that as a valid question of privilege. On the other issue, I agree that it's debate.