Evidence of meeting #21 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was changes.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Danielle Widmer
Andrew Brown  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development
Graham Flack  Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development
Cliff C. Groen  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Benefits and Integrated Services Branch, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development
Émilie Thivierge  Legislative Clerk

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 21 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings today are televised and will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, March 11, the committee will commence its consideration of Bill C-24, an act to amend the Employment Insurance Act in regard to additional regular benefits, the Canada Recovery Benefits Act, regarding restriction on eligibility, and another act in response to COVID-19.

I welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions.

We're pleased to have here with us the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion; Lori MacDonald, the senior associate deputy minister of Employment and Social Development Canada and chief operating officer for Service Canada; and Graham Flack, the deputy minister of Employment and Social Development Canada.

I understand they're in the process of logging in. Although I've welcomed them, there might be a short delay before they are actually with us.

With that, we are going to start with the sponsor of the bill, the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion.

Minister, you have the floor. Welcome to the committee.

3:35 p.m.

Delta B.C.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Employment

Thank you, and hello, everyone. Thanks for having me here today to speak to Bill C-24.

I acknowledge that I'm joining you from the traditional territory of the Tsawwassen and Musqueam first nations.

I am joined here today—or will be joined, as the chair pointed out—by officials from ESDC and Service Canada.

This bill would make important amendments to the Employment Insurance Act, the Canada Recovery Benefits Act and the Customs Act...

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but I'm getting massive feedback.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Minister, I'd like you to hold off for a second.

This is something that happens from time to time. We'll get it resolved and restart the clock.

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Danielle Widmer

Minister Qualtrough, could you resume your introduction, your opening statement?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Sure.

This bill would make important amendments to the Employment Insurance Act, the Canada Recovery Benefits Act and the Customs Act that would allow us to continue to support Canadians.

Last summer and fall, we laid out a plan to continue to support Canada's workforce through the ongoing pandemic. We transitioned from the CERB to a simplified employment insurance program and introduced a suite of recovery benefits to provide income support to workers whose employment continues to be impacted by COVID-19.

At that time, we said we'd monitor labour market changes and make adjustments as needed. We've done that and are following through on our commitment to continue providing certainty for workers.

The bill being proposed is to increase the maximum number of available weeks of EI regular benefits and make sure that Canadians don't face a gap in receiving the support they continue to need right now.

If this bill does not get passed and receive royal assent before the end of March, tens of thousands of Canadians will be notified as early as March 26 that they have exhausted their EI regular benefits, so we need to get this done.

Parallel to this bill, we are making increases, through regulations, to the number of weeks available under the Canada recovery benefit, the Canada recovery caregiving benefit and the Canada recovery sickness benefit, and to secure job-protected leave under the Canada Labour Code.

Let me now discuss the amendments to the EI Act in more detail.

Bill C-24 amends the Employment Insurance Act to increase the number of weeks that workers can claim in EI regular benefits. Workers will now be eligible for up to a maximum of 50 weeks for claims established between September 27, 2020, and September 25, 2021.

It would enable millions of Canadians to continue to receive support while still having access to the essential employment insurance system resources and tools for them to be able to re-enter the labour market.

Such resources include working while on claim, where workers can keep part of their EI benefits and all earnings from their job. The work-sharing program allows companies to redistribute available work through a voluntary reduction in hours worked by all employees within one or more work units. It also allows employers to retain a full workforce on a reduced workweek, rather than laying off part of their workforce. This keeps workers on the job, which is key to Canada's successful economic recovery.

Our country's labour market is also changing rapidly because of the pandemic. This new reality requires additional skills and training for more workers. It is another good reason to broaden access to the employment insurance system. Out-of-work Canadians would have access to courses and training programs while receiving employment insurance benefits.

We know that Canadians want to work. Evidence from last year's labour market data clearly shows that when there is work available, Canadians take these jobs.

I also highlight that, as part of this legislation, self-employed workers participating in the EI program would be able to temporarily access EI special benefits with an earning threshold of $5,000, compared to the previously set threshold of $7,555. Self-employed workers have also been hard-hit by the pandemic and need this extra support.

I'd also like to speak about travellers returning to Canada and their access to Canada recovery benefits. We have also said clearly that these benefits, and in particular the Canada Recovery Sickness Benefit, were established to allow Canadians to have paid sick leave when it is not available from their employer.

The amendments to the Canada Recovery Benefits Act and the Customs Act that are proposed in Bill C-24 would make Canadians who travel for non-essential reasons ineligible for recovery benefits. However, Canadians who travel internationally for medical treatment that is considered by a medical practitioner to be necessary, or to accompany such a person as an attendant, will remain eligible for recovery benefits, as will Canadians who travel internationally for essential reasons and must self-isolate upon their return to Canada.

The application of these eligibility rules will be retroactive to October 2, 2020, which is when the recovery benefits were introduced after the Canada Recovery Benefits Act received royal assent.

As I mentioned earlier, we are still in a crisis. We'll continue to monitor the labour market and will be there for workers during this difficult period.

Let me close by restating the importance of passing this legislation in a timely manner. The bill has been in the hands of all members since February 23. All parties have said the bill is straightforward and necessary. I urge all parties to move this bill along as quickly as possible. Let's listen to workers who are relying on EI to pay their bills and support their families.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you very much, Minister.

We're now going to proceed with rounds of questions, beginning with the Conservatives.

Ms. Dancho, please. You have six minutes.

March 11th, 2021 / 3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Chair, if you'll allow me before you start my time, could the minister confirm that her officials are with us now? I have a few technical questions to start.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Yes, can you please confirm that?

3:45 p.m.

The Clerk

We are still working to get all the officials online right now.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Are any of them available to answer technical questions now?

3:45 p.m.

The Clerk

Currently, we have Mr. Andrew Brown.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Okay. Is Mr. Brown able to answer technical questions about the legislation?

3:45 p.m.

Andrew Brown Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Yes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to start my time now.

Minister, thank you for being with us today, and thank you, Mr. Brown, for being with us as well.

My technical question concerns clause 2 of the bill.

My understanding is that this is the self-employed clause. It essentially acknowledges that the income of self-employed workers was negatively impacted in 2020, so it lowers their qualifying income threshold from $7,555 to $5,000. However, it does so only until September 25, 2021. That is, the EI special benefit program will continue, of course, after September 25, as it's an existing benefit, but only for those who made $7,555.

Can you explain why that is? Why not just carry that clause 2 up until the end of the year?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown

Ms. Dancho, thanks for that question.

The logic for that date is that it aligns to when the other temporary measures with respect to the EI program would be in place, including the proposed extension of the number of weeks of regular benefits. New claimants after that date would have to meet the threshold of $7,555, but for any self-employed participant who made a claim before that date, their claim would be established and would continue. They would not see their claims cut off on that date.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Okay—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I'm sorry to interrupt, Ms. Dancho. The bells are ringing in the House, so we are obligated to suspend the meeting unless we have unanimous consent to continue.

I would ask if unanimous consent exists to continue until there's 10 minutes before the vote, which will allow us time to pull away. If not, we'll have to suspend right away.

Do we have unanimous consent to continue until 10 minutes before the vote?

We do.

Please go ahead, Ms. Dancho.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Chair, I am at one minute and 32 seconds, so I'm going to start from there.

I'll just confirm again. Anyone who is qualifying for that benefit now won't automatically get kicked off on September 25 because they only made $5,000 or less, not $7,500 plus or less. Is that what you're saying, Mr. Brown?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown

That's correct. If they qualified before that date, they will continue to be eligible to be paid those benefits.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

It's just new applicants after the 25th.

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown

That's right.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

I understand it's neat and tidy altogether. I appreciate what you're saying and I'm glad to hear that. I still feel it's a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but I appreciate your explanation.

Can you tell me how many leisure travellers or just travellers in general claimed the CERB before January 11?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown

We know that the total number of claimants at that point would have been something like 1.5 million Canadians. In terms of the number of travellers, we don't have information on the number of people who travelled and applied for the benefit prior to January. At that time, we were not asking people to provide information with respect to whether they had travelled outside of the country.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

You're not sure.

I asked the minister this during our bill briefing and she mentioned that it has to go through CRA and there's this whole process to talk to customs and the border service agents and the like to work that out. It sounds almost like an audit process.

Can you estimate how long it's going to take to root out who's been travelling for leisure purposes after January 11?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown

The after January 11 part is now part of the application process.

People actually have to indicate that when they apply for the benefit, so we have that information as to whether they've indicated that they were travelling or not. Prior to January 11, that was not part of the form—