Evidence of meeting #22 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefit.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
2:40 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
There was no interpretation, but that's been resolved.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Okay.
Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, and this meeting is also televised.
Should any technical challenges arise, please let me know. Please note that we might need to suspend for a few minutes to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.
Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee will commence consideration of the supplementary estimates (C), 2020-21: vote 1c under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and votes 1c, 5c, 10c and 15c under Department of Employment and Social Development, referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 16, 2021.
Also, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee will commence consideration of the main estimates 2021-22: vote 1 under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, votes 1 and 5 under Canadian Accessibility Standards Development Organization, vote 1 under Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety, and votes 1 and 5 under Department of Employment and Social Development, referred to the committee on Thursday, February 25, 2021.
I welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions.
Appearing is the Honourable Ahmed Hussen, Minister of Families, Children and Social Development. From the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, we have Evan Siddall, president and CEO; and Lisa Williams, chief financial officer.
Also, from the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Mark Perlman, chief financial officer and senior assistant deputy minister; Benoît Long, chief transformation officer; Graham Flack, deputy minister of Employment and Social Development; Lori MacDonald, senior associate deputy minister of Employment and Social Development and chief operating officer for Service Canada; Cliff Groen, senior assistant deputy minister, benefits and integrated services branch of Service Canada; Janet Goulding, associate assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch; and Catherine Adam, senior assistant deputy minister, strategic and service policy branch.
That said, we will start with Minister Hussen, for five minutes.
Minister, welcome back to the committee. You have the floor.
2:40 p.m.
York South—Weston Ontario
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen LiberalMinister of Families
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.
I'm happy to speak to the supplementary estimates (C) for 2020-21 and the main estimates for 2021-22 that pertain to my portfolio at Employment and Social Development Canada, ESDC.
Saying that our lives have changed significantly over the last year would be an understatement.
However, our government's priorities remain focused on protecting the health and financial security of Canadians. These priorities are supported by the appropriations requested in the main estimates, as well as the supplementary estimates (C) associated with the previous exercise. Today, I hope to provide you with some overarching context and answer any questions you may have.
ESDC's main estimates for 2021-22 present a total of $82.4 billion in planned budgetary expenditures. Over 95% of these expenditures will directly support Canadians through the department's programs, services and initiatives.
Before I address the supplementary estimates (C), I'd like to point out that my department did not stop helping Canadians when Service Canada centres were forced to close because of the pandemic. On the contrary, we increased the number of call centre agents and, when possible, simplified applications for certain benefits. We made it easier for Canadians to access services online, while maintaining all the measures to safeguard private information.
The 2020-21 supplementary estimates (C) reflect these actions. The department requires additional funding to continue to improve client experience, both online and in person, as well as to modernize the way it delivers benefits. The department will continue to make sure that Canadians have access to the benefits they are entitled to.
I want to be very clear. The safety and well-being of Canadians remain the government's number one priority.
The pandemic has certainly taught us the importance of having a place to call home. That is why the Government of Canada will keep investing in measures to address urgent housing needs. This includes continuing with our 10-year, $70-billion national housing strategy. We'll also continue to support communities to prevent and reduce homelessness and ensure the sector's ability to fight COVID-19 through increased investments in Reaching Home, Canada's homelessness strategy. This will build on our existing goals by helping those in immediate need. It also advances the progress being made through Opportunity for All, Canada's first poverty reduction strategy, to reduce poverty and achieve the United Nations sustainable development goal to end poverty by 2030.
We know that homeless Canadians are among our country's most vulnerable, and our government believes that no one anywhere in Canada should be left without a place to call home. That is why we are the first government in Canadian history to take responsibility and [Technical difficulty—Editor] additional investments of nearly $400 million under Reaching Home. In the fall economic statement, we would sustain our support into 2021 with an additional investment of nearly $300 million. This is on top of approximately $215.3 million invested annually into communities across Canada through Reaching Home, from 2021 to 2024.
At the same time, we will continue to invest in such longer-term programs as the national housing co-investment fund and the rental construction financing initiative, for which funding is included in this year's estimates.
Mr. Chair, the pandemic continues to have a tremendous impact on Canadian families with young children. For Canadian families, access to affordable, high-quality child care is not a luxury; it is a necessity. We are laying the groundwork for a Canada-wide early learning and child care system, in partnership with provinces, territories, indigenous peoples and non-profit organizations, so that every Canadian has access to high-quality, affordable, accessible and inclusive child care.
The Government of Canada is also proposing new temporary support of up to $1,200 per child under the age of six in 2021, to further assist families with young children. As well, during the pandemic the Government of Canada was pleased to provide $350 million for the emergency community support fund to help organizations that are providing very critical services to vulnerable Canadians.
The main estimates for 2021-22 and all of the items outlined in the supplementary estimates process today demonstrate our clear commitment to Canadians and to building back better. There is no doubt that the financial resources requested will enable us to continue to do this work.
Mr. Chair, I'll be very pleased to answer any and all questions you may have.
Thank you.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you very much, Minister. I expect we do indeed have questions.
We're going to start with Mr. Vis, for six minutes, please.
March 16th, 2021 / 2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Hussen.
Changes in non-budgetary planned expenditures reflect an increase in low cost loans for the construction of sustainable rental apartment projects and for the construction, repair and revitalization of affordable housing.
That's the introduction from the main estimates document.
I assume the first part of this increase for rental apartment projects is in support of the rental construction financing initiative announced in the 2020 fall economic statement. Is that correct, Minister?
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you.
Which other program is receiving funds for the low-cost loans outlined in the introduction, beyond the RCFI?
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Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
I would turn it over to either Deputy Graham or Mr. Siddall.
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Conservative
2:45 p.m.
Evan Siddall President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The national housing co-investment fund would be the other program through which we would give loans to low-cost housing—grants or loans, but loans as well.
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Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Can you provide a rough breakdown of the $3.2-billion non-budgetary figure in the mains?
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I can't offhand. I'm just looking to see if my CFO can. If not, we can respond in writing.
Lisa.
2:45 p.m.
Lisa Williams Chief Financial Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Yes, sure.
In terms of the $3.2 billion, as Mr. Siddall indicated, there's approximately $1 billion in relation to the co-investment fund. There are also monies in relation to RCFI, as you indicated—approximately $2.3 billion. There is also money in there for the first-time home buyer program.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you.
I'll go to my next question. The rental construction financing initiative appears to be one of the most successful housing programs under this government's national housing strategy. When it started in 2017, there was $2.5 billion allocated. This was then increased to $14 billion, and now to $25.75 billion. Is this an acknowledgement by the government that working with the private sector is the best way to increase Canada's purpose-built rental housing stock?
Second, is the government exploring other tools to encourage developers to increase the rental stock in this country, perhaps through tax incentives?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
It's an acknowledgement that the rental construction financing initiative works. Working with the private sector to build mixed housing or rental units, which also have a portion of deep affordability, is not the only way to address the housing crisis in our country.
We have a number of programs, as you are aware, through the national housing strategy. Increasing the budget a number of times for the rental construction financing initiative is a simple acknowledgement of the incredible demand for this program in the private sector, and it's effective on the ground.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Minister.
Would it be fair to say that money through the national housing strategy is going out the door faster through this initiative than any other program?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
I wouldn't say that. The co-investment fund is also a very popular program that disburses loans and contributions—forgivable loans as well as straight loans—to proponents. They just happen to be mainly from the non-profit sector, whereas the rental construction financing initiative is usually used by the private sector.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Minister.
Turning to the first-time home buyer incentive, when I last received information on this government incentive, it showed that, over the course of eight months, only 16 people had used the program in Toronto, and a single person had used it in Vancouver. No stakeholder I've spoken with had a positive word to say about it. There are numerous reasons, but it boils down to the fact that it does not accomplish its primary objective of creating new first-time homeowners. Program users must already qualify for a mortgage to access it. No one who otherwise would be unable to purchase a home is now able to as a result of this program. What are the metrics CMHC uses to determine if the program has been a success or a failure? This question is for Mr. Siddall.
The objective of this program, as stated in CMHC's 2019 annual report, was to assist 20,000 first-time homebuyers in the first six months, and 100,000 first-time homebuyers from 2019 to 2022. However, your amended corporate plan as submitted to the committee has “TBD” in the target column. Is CMHC's strategy to simply not establish a target so you can't be held accountable for failing to meet it? How many actually used the program in its first six months?
Thank you.
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Let me give you a partial response, and if it's incomplete, Mr. Vis, we're happy to respond subsequently.
Those targets were established not by CMHC, but by the government. I will tell you that the number of approved applications so far has been over 10,000. The program has helped 10,648 Canadians and it has advanced $193.4 million to them as of this moment.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I have a follow-up question. I've heard from the mortgage brokers and from various banks that they incurred significant expenses to retool their IT set-ups in order to provide their clients access to the first-time home buyer plan. Did CMHC or ESDC foresee this added cost, and did you chart out how these changes would impact the sector when the program started?
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
We did. We had consultations with a number of financial institutions in advance of implementing the program. Every time we make any single change, there are system changes required of financial institutions. That's not new information.