Human Resources Committee on March 16th, 2021

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Are you able to make any of those terms available to the committee in terms of that funding agreement?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Graham, is it possible to make a kind of a standard set of terms and conditions available?

[Graham Flack]

I'll check, Minister. I think so.

There are two different streams. There are the streams of federal funding; those have our own terms and conditions, and indeed we can make those available. There has been a focus on those most distant from the workforce and those most impacted. Then there are the federal-provincial agreements themselves, including the safe restart agreement and the $1.5 billion after that. That was made public, a broad set of agreements—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Right. Pardon me, Mr. Flack. I'm looking to see whether they have changed from pre-pandemic to post-pandemic, so if you can provide the ones that you have done before the pandemic and now, I would like to see how our federal government has adapted these agreements, given the new economy we're living in now.

I did want to ask a bit, Minister, about funding for women specifically. I know this is a theme of today's HUMA committee.

In Manitoba specifically, we have 7.1% of women unemployed, compared to 1.5% of men, so it is impacting us quite significantly. We know that 1.5 million women were immediately laid off at the onset of the pandemic; 500,000 remain unemployed and 100,000 have left the workforce altogether because there are no jobs available to them. I'm quite concerned about this, as you know. In the last 30 years—my lifespan—all of those gains for women in employment have been wiped out.

I was encouraged but then discouraged by a recent announcement by your government to formulate an 18-woman task force to inform your government on how to handle this. It's a women-led task force, which I appreciate, but I was disappointed to see that none of the industries that have been hardest hit and are particularly dominated by women—we're talking service industry, retail, accommodations and personal services jobs—have voices at that table.

Did you have input in this task force? Are you disappointed that none of these industries dominated by women and dominated by the employment losses are represented in this task force?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

From the beginning, we have put a gender lens on the decision-making we've done and on the benefits and supports we've provided, and we have also, as you have, clearly watched how women have been both frontlined and sidelined by this pandemic. I am deeply concerned and share your concern on this.

We have committed to creating an action plan for women in the economy, which will be guided by the task force that you're talking about, and we have attempted to have broad representation in this group. I was not the lead on this, but I did provide some input.

I'd be happy to perhaps work with you offline to see if we can maybe bolster the gaps you've identified. I'd be happy to do that, for sure, again with the understanding that I'm not the lead. I'd be happy to facilitate that.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I know that your department, as you well know, provides the bulk of the supports for those who have been laid off. I know you're very aware that those are women-dominated and that these are the industries they come from, so I was just surprised that this task force that was announced to quite a bit of fanfare, I have to say, did not include any representation from women-led industries that have been hardest impacted.

I want to encourage you very strongly to reach out to the deputy prime minister and perhaps recommend that she ensure there is representation from these industries. I am very concerned about women-led industries.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I will definitely follow up. I give you that commitment.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Dancho.

Next we have Mr. Long.

Go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Thank you, Minister, again for your regular availability to this committee. We really appreciate it.

Minister, I want to say it's refreshing to work with somebody like you who is so passionate about her portfolio. It was a pleasure to work with you on the Accessible Canada Act, Bill C-81, in the last Parliament. I know it's transformational legislation. Again, thank you for your commitment.

Minister, I do want [Technical difficulty—Editor] to talk about CERB. I know MP Gazan talked about CERB with respect to poverty, and I think we all know that without CERB hundreds of thousands of Canadians would have fallen into poverty.

Minister, my question is this. When the Canadian economy shut down due to the pandemic, it was evident that the employment insurance system would not be able to handle the volume of claimants who would be applying. I think all of us MPs could certainly attest to that, given the calls we were getting into our offices as our government launched the Canada emergency response benefit, the CERB, to support Canadians who were unable to work. This benefit ended up providing direct financial support to more than eight million Canadians, ensuring they had the help they needed to pay their bills and support their families.

I will be blunt. It was shocking to me to hear, especially from Conservative members, comments about the CERB being too generous. What would have happened if our government had not taken action to create the CERB?

Thank you, Minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

It's a great question. Absolutely, the EI system wasn't set up to respond quickly or to the number of workers we wanted to help, which is where the birth of the CERB came from. We were there for over eight million people, workers, who weren't able to work because of COVID-19, to ensure they had income support.

COVID, we knew, would impact workers who lost their jobs. We knew it would impact workers whose child care or day program options weren't available. We knew it would impact workers who got sick or who had to self-isolate or quarantine, and those were the guiding principles for the CERB. Those were the impacts we wanted to lessen for working Canadians. They didn't have work, but they still had bills to pay. They still had to pay mortgages and rent and pay for food and medicine.

We felt that our government was better positioned to carry the weight of this non-discretionary debt that would be incurred, because if we didn't, Canadians would use their credit cards and their lines of credit, and we would see more bankruptcies, more mortgage foreclosures, etc. The financial pressure and insecurity would weigh heavily on families, who were already living in isolation and uncertainty. We chose to incur this debt so Canadians wouldn't have to. That was key to ensuring that when the economy came back, Canadians would be able to fully participate.

I could never be convinced that the CERB was too generous. Judging by the number of times I heard—and you probably heard—the CERB called a lifeline, I believe Canadians were incredibly grateful for this support.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Minister, certainly I'll echo that. Certainly in my constituency office here in Saint John-Rothesay, I got calls from people who simply didn't qualify for EI or whose benefits were running out, and to think that the other party was saying it was too generous.... These were people who literally couldn't afford to buy groceries, to pay their rent and so on. I think we can all agree that the CERB was a lifeline for really, as you say, eight million Canadians.

Minister, I want to switch to the CRB. When the CERB ended, a large portion of recipients were transitioned to a simplified EI program. Some were ineligible for EI benefits, and again all of us had those calls at the office.

As a result, our government created three Canada recovery benefits to support Canadians during the transition. How many Canadians in total have been helped by the recovery benefits?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Oh my goodness. The CRB is at about 1.75 million Canadians as of February 27. The sickness benefit is at around 411,000. The caregiving benefit is at around 343,000. It's a significant number. That's not including the millions on EI.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Right, and I think we can all realize what would have happened without the extension of those benefits. We all got calls. I got calls into my office from people who were certainly desperate. Their EI was running out. They didn't have other options.

Again, these benefits were a lifeline to Canadians. That's what a good government does. A good government delivers benefits that Canadians need, certainly in times of crisis, so thank you for that, Minister, and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

I now yield the floor to Ms. Chabot.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Minister, you mentioned earlier the importance of training, skills, and so on.

I would like to point out to you that in the main estimates, there is a $20-million decrease in contributions to not-for-profit, for-profit, aboriginal or government organizations at all levels for adult learning, literacy and essential skills.

I think that in this case, you are not walking the talk.

What could possibly explain this $20-million cut? It's huge.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That's because during the pandemic, some organizations didn't use the money we gave them. Perhaps Mr. Perlman could explain how we decided to give it to them from now on. That said, I hope I understood your question correctly.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The issue is that there is a $20-million cut.

I have advocated for adult literacy organizations before when federal grants were being cut.

Yet it is critical to develop skills in adults. We see what's happening now. They need to develop those skills so they can get back on track, requalify, or regain [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I agree with you completely.

However, I don't know the exact answer to your question, so I will commit to following up with you after the meeting.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

So I can ask you another question.

On page 202 of the main estimates, there are special health benefits that fall under EI. You answered a question earlier from my NDP colleague about the 15 weeks for adoption. Since you have no decisions to announce to us with respect to the two very specific issues that were in your mandate, we can expect anything, really.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please give a brief response.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

This will be in the plan for the future of EI, but we haven't made the specific decisions as to when to implement it. We have decided to do it, but we don't know when. It depends on systems, money and other things.

We haven't decided when.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot and Madam Minister.

Next is Ms. Gazan, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you again, Minister.

In the Speech from the Throne, your government committed to building a more inclusive tax filing system to make it easier for Canadians to receive the benefits they need. The problem is that this approach actually excludes the most vulnerable people in Canada, who don't file personal income taxes due to various reasons or various barriers, such as a lack of identification, a SIN, immigration or citizenship status, a CRA account, or a fixed address. This is a major problem that leaves people in deep poverty.

Campaign 2000, in its 2020 report card on child and family poverty in Canada, calls on the federal government to “research and develop a parallel community-based benefit eligibility and delivery system for low-income, marginalized non-taxfilers”, as many jurisdictions have done around the world.

Minister, will your government commit to developing such a parallel system?