Human Resources Committee on March 23rd, 2021

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I can hear you now. I'll repeat the question if I could start my time again. There seemed to be a freeze there.

We can't change the OAS cheques to seniors without a parliamentary approval through a budget process. Is that not correct?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

It would need to be a legislative change, yes.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

We don't need to wait for the next election. Now that the budget has been announced, that's the target date for fulfilling our pledge to Canadians.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

What I have been saying, and what the government is saying, is that we are committed to delivering on the 10% OAS for 75 and above.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Since it requires budgetary approval, I'm sure that the member from Saskatchewan will be supporting our budget to fulfill that pledge, because she seems to be enamoured with it.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Perhaps she'd like to run for us in the next election.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I don't appreciate having MP Vaughan speaking that way and putting words in my mouth and attacking my character in such a way.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I withdraw it. You don't support the increase. I understand that.

In terms of the OAS—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Again, on a point of order, Mr. Chair—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Which is it?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

You cannot apologize.... You cannot retract your statement and say it again. No. That speaks to character, Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Fair enough. You can decide whether you support the proposal. It sounded like you did. If you don't, I'll let you choose which side you want to be on. I appreciate the clarification.

My question for the minister is this. In the interim, because of COVID, we actually boosted payments with one-time emergency funds that actually exceeded the commitment we made in the campaign. That's what I just heard you say.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

We doubled our commitment to seniors just through the one-time payments, and they were tax-free payments as well.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

There were also other supports through the charitable foundations around food banks. There were additional supports around community non-profit support. There were additional supports in terms of some of the other steps we took, which supported seniors without necessarily writing a cheque, but with support, so they could live comfortably in the community.

There were also transfers to the provinces for long-term care, for personal support workers, and for supports in the community as part of the safe restart agreement. It wasn't just money being sent to their chequing accounts. It was also programs that we sent to the provinces to support seniors. Is that not right?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

You're absolutely right. I want to go through these, because I think it really is worth repeating. Not only did we put an additional $20 million for the new horizons for seniors program—and we've all heard how important that program is for seniors—but we gave $350 million to charities and not-for-profits to help vulnerable Canadians, including seniors. I saw lots of projects come out—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Meal programs, social visits and PPE—

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Absolutely. There was food to the door, and taking people to their appointments. All very important things.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

To be clear, on long-term care, we didn't vote against the NDP motion because of the national standards part of it. It was the process of imposing national standards on the provinces that we were opposed to. It was the process we were opposed to, not the principle. Is that a fair way of describing our vote today?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

It's very important to be aware that it is the jurisdiction of the provinces and territories to provide long-term care, so we need to work with them if we're going to make significant changes and improvements. It has to be in partnership with them.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

There is an area where a province has exclusive jurisdiction over long-term care. That's British Columbia, with an NDP government. They haven't followed their federal party's lead to immediately and substantially end all for-profit care in B.C.

In fact, they said it will take time to fade the system into a different position. They are working with us federally to create national standards and work out new funding models, but when it comes to long-term care and getting rid of all for-profit models in a system, B.C. actually has the capacity to do it tomorrow if they wanted to, but the NDP government in British Columbia has not done that.

Have they told you why they disagree with Jagmeet Singh on this issue?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

I would suggest that, as you said, it is up to each province to determine the best way forward for that province. I think if you look at the data in other countries, you'll see places like Australia, which has for-profit and not-for-profit, and it did very well. So the fundamental here isn't whether it's for-profit or not-for-profit. It's whether they had adequate infection prevention and control measures. It's whether they had adequate staffing and kept people in one location, not having multiple other jobs and bringing the virus in and out of the facilities.

It's about how those facilities are structured: Are they one bed and one bathroom per person, or are they multi-living, where you have a ward with four people together and they weren't isolated when they got COVID? Were they kept in the same room with those who didn't have COVID?

It was really the practice, and that's why we feel that the long-term care national standards are the right thing for us to focus on, because no matter how seniors choose to live—whether it's private, not private, home care—all systems need to be improved. We saw that through the tragedy of the outcomes of the last two waves of the pandemic.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I can't wait for the budget.

I think that's my time, Mr. Chair.