Evidence of meeting #23 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
A deficit is not even a question. It's just how large the deficit will be.
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
Let me give you an estimate of at least $25 billion.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
That's helpful. Thank you.
Has the Government of Canada consulted you or other members of the commission on extending EI sickness benefits from 15 to 50 or 52 weeks?
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
We've had discussions on and off on that topic over the past few years, because it's been at play. My counterpart on the employer side and I have conveyed our concerns and our ideas on this. Like everyone.... I mean, we don't have any privy access—
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Sorry, I want to get one more quick question in.
I come from a riding where the majority of people work for or run small businesses. Many are members of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.
Has your organization been consulted about the potential imposition of mandatory contributions for those who are self-employed? I know this exists in other European countries, and I was wondering if you have had conversations about mandatory EI for self-employed Canadians.
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
No, I haven't.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Laliberté.
Colleagues, I am now going to leave the chair and ask the vice-chair, Madame Chabot, to assume the chair, as I wish to take an active part in questions.
Madame Chabot is now in charge, and I hope that she will cede the floor to me for the next six minutes.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Forget, I have great admiration for your work. It is extremely well-known in Prince Edward Island. I am going to apologize in advance. I stepped out of the chair because I've been wanting for some time to bring up the issue of EI zones with the EI commission, and I will be spending all of my time with Mr. Laliberté.
Mr. Laliberté, as you indicated in response to Mr. Vis, one of your preoccupations is with respect to the EI zones. That is a very significant preoccupation in my province.
You referenced the 2012 decision, which was actually implemented in 2014, which had the effect of dividing Prince Edward Island into two zones, at the same time as new zones were created in the north. That was done in the dying days of the Harper government and—as far as anyone in Prince Edward Island is concerned—for purely political purposes, to attempt to save a seat there. However, we have been unable to pierce the opaque process behind the revision of the zones, and I'm hoping you're going to be able to help me with that today.
We heard from Mr. Brown, with the department, that a review of the EI zones was completed in 2018. My first question for you, sir, is whether the review included any notice to the workers or to the public that such a review was taking place.
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
Not to my knowledge.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
Not to my knowledge.
Actually, let me qualify this. In my capacity, I will talk to my stakeholders, so to speak. I've had a number of conversations, for instance, with the people in P.E.I. over this. In terms of having a formal consultation, absolutely we haven't had any.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
In the course of your discussions with the people in P.E.I. over this, have you yet found one who has spoken in favour of maintaining the status quo of two zones? I haven't.
5:05 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
I haven't either, in truth.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
That being the case, whatever public consultation was done, even if it was by you alone, why were those voices not taken into account when the review was quietly and privately concluded and it was determined to maintain the status quo, as opposed to the only public input that was received?
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
The problem we faced back then, and I will have to sort of recollect what happened.... We certainly—the two commissioners—were favourable to moving forward at the time, but it just didn't.... What you have to realize is that we cannot proceed in an ad hoc sort of way.
Essentially, it was determined at that point that we would have fresh information from the census that could help us develop a sound methodology with the right numbers so that we could reassess the entire map. In a sense, it was just a temporary postponement, if you will. We started almost right over. As soon as the data from 2016 was available, the department started working with the commission on determining whether the current EI regions were homogeneous.
Just to point out quickly, what we're looking for is discrepancies. As you know, the building blocks of the regions are the census divisions. What we're looking for is outliers. Are there census divisions in current EI regions totally at odds with the prevailing state of things? Basically, it's a big jigsaw puzzle. For this we take into account the unemployment rate. We take into account labour market conditions.
The department developed a methodology that we approved. We worked very closely with them. Now the challenge is, as you may know, that there are about 300 census divisions in Canada, so we're not going to have 300 regions.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Mr. Laliberté, I don't want to run out of time. I think what I heard you say is that another review is now undertaken. Will there be an opportunity for public input, and will it be heeded?
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
As these things go, there's always public input once the proposition is put to Canadians through the gazetting. That's the minimal sort of threshold.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Gazetting only happens if the commission decides to make changes. If the commission decides to maintain the status quo, there's no gazetting; there's no opportunity for public input and everything happens in secret. Isn't that right?
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
I can guarantee you that there will be some changes. Just to recall, there hasn't been a substantial change to this map since about 2001.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
It was a pretty substantial change in P.E.I. when they pitted Islanders one against the other with the 2014 changes in the dying days of the Harper government.
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner for Workers, Canada Employment Insurance Commission
I don't debate this. What I mean is that those were very targeted changes. This was not an intent to review the entire map at that point. Now we're doing the entire map, and we should be in a position to put to the minister and the government an alternative, and then it will be up to the government to decide whether they heed the advice of the commission.
