Human Resources Committee on May 27th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 36 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. Proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

The committee will now proceed to the consideration of matters related to committee business. I will remind members that we are in public and not in camera. I will also remind members that we have a witness coming at 5 p.m.—so in about 22 minutes—Romy Bowers. We were able to secure 90 minutes for her. I would ask that folks be mindful that we will have her here and that we have a limited amount of time for committee business.

The other thing that some, but not all, of you are aware of is that I will be ceding the chair to Ms. Dancho at or before 5 p.m. as I have some happy personal business to attend to. I want to thank Ms. Dancho for agreeing to take the chair on my departure.

In terms of committee business, it is my hope that we will be able to deal with two things that were raised previously and one new item, at least by way of reference. As you may be aware, yesterday the House referred Bill C-265 to the committee. As a private member's bill referred to the committee, it must be reported back to the House 60 sitting days following the date it was referred. We will receive soon—although we haven't yet—a memorandum from our support people at the House of Commons. We will receive a memorandum—as will independents such as Mr. Manly, who is with us here today—with information that will be of assistance to us in consideration of the bill. That's one thing that we could deal with today.

The other things that were previously before us that we'd like to finalize, if possible, in the next 22 minutes are the budget for the seniors study and the question of honorariums and gifts—we have some news on that. There's also the matter of the Centennial Flame Research Award. We have some information to get back to you on that.

Colleagues, I'm going to start with a suggestion in connection with Bill C-265, and then we can open the floor. Given that any discussion on how we're going to deal with Bill C-265 is likely to take more than the 19 minutes we now have, it would be my recommendation that we set aside some time for committee business at a future meeting to chart our course with respect to Bill C-265 in terms of how many meetings we should set aside, the timing of those meetings, the submission of witness lists, the amount of time allocated for clause-by-clause, etc. I think that will be a detailed discussion that we're not going to be able to deal with in a cursory fashion.

Those are my introductory remarks.

I see Madame Chabot.

You have the floor, Ms. Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If this is a good time, I would like to talk about Bill C-265. I would like to bring to our attention that we should act with the greatest possible diligence to help us complete this work by the end of the parliamentary session.

While significant in scope, this bill is simple in its technical form. I think one or two sessions with witnesses could be sufficient to study this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We don't have many meetings before June 24. Also, we will receive the draft report on EI reform on June 7. However, I understand your suggestions and I fully accept them.

Are there any other comments on this issue?

Ms. Dancho, please.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm fine to discuss what the plan should be for this bill at our next committee for a bit of time, just to debate it in a more fulsome manner.

It sounds like we have a lot on the go today and only about 15 more minutes to get it done. We're happy to have this on the agenda as the first step for the next time we have committee business, which is, hopefully, at the next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Seeing no other hands raised, can we move to one of the other outstanding items? We will bring this back before the committee the next time we have committee business.

We have witnesses invited for the next two meetings, although I see a “to be determined” on the Tuesday panel. If that slot hasn't been filled, we may be able to have three sets of witnesses for one panel and leave some time at the end. That would be one solution. If not, we'll see what we can do on Thursday, June 3.

For the next item, you have a budget before you for approval with respect to the study we are currently undertaking, which is the impact of COVID-19 on seniors. It's a budget of $4,300. When we last discussed it, a couple of questions were posed.

One was around the possibility of an honorarium and tobacco for indigenous elders who will be included among the witnesses that come before us. With respect to that, the clerk has done a bit of research and has indicated that there is a policy on the issuance of gifts from the official gift bank, which limits the issuance of gifts to either travelling committees or foreign delegations coming before the committee. This would be contrary to that policy. I would also point out as a matter of interest that this isn't something that is done at the indigenous affairs committee.

I'm happy to entertain further discussion on this. If there is none, I would ask for a motion that the budget be adopted as presented.

Ms. Gazan, please.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair, and thank you for your work and research.

We know that, historically, the House of Commons is a very colonial institution. At a time when we're passing bills like Bill C-15, I encourage everybody on this committee, but also all members of the House, to really reflect on how sometimes we have to change and shift systems, so that they're truly inclusive and culturally relevant. Particularly, we have to remember that the very places where all of us sit are on indigenous lands in this country. The fact is, those are very small gifts considering the benefit of everybody in the circle.

I'll leave it at that. I won't have a grand debate, but I think this is something that really needs to be changed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vaughan, please.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Can I propose that we draft a letter to send to the House affairs committee to ask for a change in the Standing Orders and the rules and procedures to allow us to honour indigenous elders in this way? It's an established practice and not one of cost, really. It's just a question of how we pay for it and execute it. We could take the lead and suggest that all committees be given permission to honour indigenous elders as they appear as witnesses, especially when we connect studies into indigenous affairs.

Secondly, I'll take it upon the government side to facilitate the presentation of the gifts that honour their presence. If we could get the addresses of the elders that are being invited, my office will take care of it as a gesture of goodwill towards establishing a new and good practice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.

Ms. Gazan, please.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much to my colleague Mr. Vaughan. I really appreciate that offer.

Particularly as this is a human rights committee, I think this would be a really good practice for us to model. I'll just leave it at that.

Thank you very much for that offer. I appreciate it very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Dancho.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciated the feedback from both Mr. Vaughan and Ms. Gazan. I see their points.

Mr. Vaughan, I just want to confirm. Were you saying that we should send a letter as a committee to...was it PROC? I missed where—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I think it's PROC. I think it's procedure and House affairs. They are the ones...or is it internal economy? I can't remember which one does which.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I don't know which one either. We were considering getting advice from them, as well as a proposal from us. Perhaps the clerk could come back with a suggestion for how to proceed with getting a further recommendation if we decide as a committee to do a formal letter.

Overall, having worked in Manitoba politics for a number of years, I'm very comfortable and familiar with a tobacco gift in particular. I know that's very common in Manitoba. Having an elder come and share their wisdom is a great honour, so I can understand providing a gift.

Our only concern with the honorarium is that it may set a precedent for all committees and all witnesses. I think we should get some advice on that before we proceed.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I think the honorarium is a much more complex question, because it does become a matter of equity. However, I think honouring with a gift and the symbolism of that is something we can accomplish quickly. We can then ask the House and PROC or whatever...the clerk can tell us where to send the letter. We can just draft a quick letter suggesting that this become a standard practice for all committees when indigenous elders are asked to open meetings.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Perhaps we could ask that they provide their expert opinion on how to proceed with that. We could get their advice and let them know that we are open to this and would like them to consider it. I think that would be well placed.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I'll bring the letter to the next meeting.

In the interim, if the clerk could forward the addresses to me, I'll get the offerings to the elders in question. I'll do my best. I'm not sure I can do it on Amazon—nor would it be appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Mr. Vaughan.

Colleagues, I am now going to cede the chair to Ms. Dancho and head off to my other engagement.

Thank you for your indulgence. Have a wonderful and productive meeting. Take care.

Thank you, Ms. Dancho, and good luck.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to defer to the clerk. We have a few more minutes before the clock strikes four. If it's procedurally fine, we could discuss the Centennial Flame award before we do the sound check for Ms. Bowers.

Okay, we'll go into that.

Since we have a few minutes, why don't we talk about the Centennial Flame award, settle that and get it out of the way?

To recap, last time we had a discussion about $5,500. We were looking to set a date. I believe it was June 16. That's coming up pretty quickly. I'll open it up for discussion.

Madame Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree with what was said during our last discussions on the $5,500 award. So we could go ahead.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

To confirm, Madame Chabot, you're good with $5,500. Is that fine, from your perspective?

Yes, okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I've been on this committee now, I guess, for.... Around this particular scholarship, it's stayed at this amount, even though the dollar amount from the fountain seems to be going up. I guess as we got rid of pennies, loonies started to appear. People wanted more luck from the Centennial Flame.

I think it might be time to revisit that dollar amount and peg it a little higher so that it actually helps the people who are doing the work they're doing. I propose we boost the amount to $7,500 going forward, based on the fund and the way it's grown over the last five years. There are ample dollars in the account. Accruing a larger and larger account isn't helping students.

The other alternative would be to have a pair of recipients, but we tend to get only five or six real applications. I would suggest that a higher amount for an individual may be the way to go.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.

Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to bring up the fact that last year and this year, we did not and are not really going to see tourism, especially this summer, especially within the pandemic. I am wondering if maybe not this year but maybe in the future.... It would just be unfortunate if we raised it and then ended up depleting the account, depending on how tourism comes back. That's going to depend also on individual provinces and who can travel and that type of thing.

I would just be a bit more cautious of jumping the gun during a pandemic and increasing the amount, but that's just my opinion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Madame Chabot.