Evidence of meeting #36 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmhc.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Danielle Widmer
Romy Bowers  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

First, I spoke in favour of keeping the amount the same. However, Mr. Vaughan reminds us that, with no more pennies, there are more loonies in the centennial flame pool. He feels that there is an opportunity to increase the amount of the award.

We know what all the work of the award recipients can mean. Basically, as a sign of appreciation, I am open to the idea of increasing the amount of the award. It is not too much to talk about an additional $2,000. If we have the capacity to do so, I am open to such an increase.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

Mr. Long.

May 27th, 2021 / 3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree that we should increase the amount. I've been on HUMA now for six years, and the amount has not moved. The fact that there is—and I apologize—the number that's in the account right now, $24,000 or what have you.... It doesn't have to be $7,500, but I think an increase is in order, so maybe it's $6,500 or $7,000—whatever the committee feels is appropriate. I certainly am in favour of bumping that up a bit.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Mr. Tochor.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would disagree with increasing it this year. It's definitely going to need to be increased as inflation gets uncontrollably high in Canada in the years to come, so I would wait to see how that goes and, on the revenue side, to see if tourism comes back. I would be much more comfortable with a cautious approach of waiting to see where the next year goes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Mr. Tochor.

Ms. Gazan.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I would agree with the amount's being increased. I know that things are financially tough during COVID for everybody, but I think that's more of a reason to increase it, particularly because we know that getting employment right now is really difficult. I actually feel like it's more of a reason that we need to increase it right now in the difficult economic times we're in.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

I believe Mr. Vaughan is next. Then we have Ms. Young and then Mr. Tochor.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

I just have a question for the clerks or the support staff.

The dollar amounts have been increasing every year for the last few years. In fact, the reserve has been growing faster than.... What is the trajectory that it's on? Where are we in terms of the surplus, and how much has it been growing annually for the last couple of years?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan. Those are excellent questions.

I'll let the clerk give a definitive answer, but just over $27,000 is what is in there now.

3:55 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Danielle Widmer

Yes, you are correct, Madam Chair.

Let me take a look at it directly. There is $26,747 right now in the account. It is dependent upon the contributions from those who contribute to the fountain, as well as donations themselves. In 2016, 2017 and 2018, the award amount was $5,500. There was no award distributed in 2019 or 2020, but the amount can be decided by the committee, and it's allowed one award per year.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

What was the annual collection from the fountain on a year-by-year basis?

3:55 p.m.

The Clerk

I can actually go back.

If you look at 2020, the total amount that was deposited was $2,262. If the committee wants, I can go back and look at old account documents about this. I can usually get annual amounts, but right now I only have the amount for 2020, which is $2,262.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Madam Clerk, could you provide the 2019 amount, so we know what it would be like in a normal year?

3:55 p.m.

The Clerk

I can come back to the committee with that information, yes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

My understanding was that we were collecting more.... Obviously, COVID and construction have pushed people away from the fountain. It was closed for a period of time as it was rebuilt. My understanding and my recollection was we were collecting more in coins than we were giving out, and that was why the remodelling made sense.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.

Ms. Young.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Kate Young Liberal London West, ON

I just wanted to mention that it doesn't mean, if we increase the amount, that we have to increase it every year. Could we not, every year, look at how much is available and decide how much we're going to give out that year? That's one idea.

Certainly, I think it speaks to the fact that most people don't know where that money goes. We need to promote the program and tell people that this is how we're using the money. I think maybe we would get more.

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Thank you, Ms. Young.

It sounds like, just from a general consensus, most seem okay with increasing it by at least a modest sum. As Ms. Young pointed out, we could decrease it if we find that in 2021 there were no donations or there's $2,000 or less and it's not sustainable, which is our goal in this, of course.

I know there's not full agreement, but do we have consensus to increase it a modest amount?

If that's all right with everybody...I'm not sure. I'm just going to look at all the faces here. Mr. Tochor, you're okay with a modest increase? You're so-so.

We also need to pick a date for the deadline for submissions. Before we get to that, we can just finalize the amount. Madam Clerk, we may need a motion. We don't have a full consensus though.

Madam Clerk, would you mind chiming in?

4 p.m.

The Clerk

The committee can move a motion in terms of the quantity for the award amount. The last meeting it recommended $5,500. That was proposed. The committee can change the number of that and set a date.

At the last meeting, there was a discussion regarding June 15 for applicants to submit their applications. The committee can choose a later date to provide possible applicants additional time. It could be a date sometime in the summer. It's really up to the committee.

We just need a motion to adopt the amount and the deadline.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

Okay. It may take a little more work and today we're about out of time. Ms. Bowers is here. She wasn't able to provide two hours, but she's here for 90 minutes.

Mr. Vaughan, go right ahead.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

I was going to suggest, as a compromise, since it's the Centennial Flame award, that we make the amount $6,700. It would be numerically apropos, it would land in the middle, and it would hopefully put us on a sustainable base going forward.

You could make the date July 1 to line up with Canada Day. That would allow people to submit in advance of July 1. That would make everything poetically and symbolically tied together.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

It sounds like a nice idea. I know we don't quite have consensus yet, so if everyone is comfortable, we can revisit it next time when we revisit the letter we discussed with Mr. Vaughan. I think that might be best. We could settle on that.

The clerk just let me know that we do have to pass that budget for the seniors study, as well, since we've discussed what we're going to do with a possible letter and referring to PROC. Is there a consensus for the $4,600 for the seniors study? Is everyone comfortable with that?

Everyone looks good.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, for these trusty notes. We'll suspend for a few minutes and prepare the witness, to make sure she's got her sound checked and everything.

We'll suspend for two minutes.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho

I call this meeting back to order.

I have just a few procedural things, really quickly. Pursuant to Standing Orders 110 and 111 and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, May 6, 2021, the committee will commence consideration of the order in council appointment of Romy Bowers to the position of president of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

In addition, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, October 28, 2020, the committee will resume its study of the rapid housing initiative.

I'd like to welcome our witness to begin discussion with an opening statement followed by questions.

Ms. Bowers, we go over to you.

4 p.m.

Romy Bowers President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Thank you so much. Thank you to the chair.

Before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge that I'm joining the committee today from Toronto, which is the traditional territory of many first nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples.

I'm very pleased to meet with the committee today in my new capacity as president and chief executive officer of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. As many of you may know, I was appointed to this position effective April 6, succeeding our former president and CEO Evan Siddall. Prior to this, I served in a number of other capacities at CMHC, first as chief risk officer when I joined the company in 2015, and more recently as senior vice-president of client solutions.

Like everybody at CMHC, I'm motivated by our aspiration, “By 2030, everyone in Canada has a home that they can afford and that meets their needs.” Housing affordability is compelling for me personally, because I believe it is essential for our nation and for creating a Canada that is truly equitable and a place where every person can fulfill their potential and prosper.

Our aspiration has never been more relevant than it is today. Housing affordability is a top concern for Canadians, heightened in no small part by the COVID-19 pandemic and the new awareness that it's created among us of the sanctuary of a home.

We see that house prices continue to rise in major centres across the country. Young households are taking on more and more debt. This represents a substantial threat to Canada's financial stability in the event that interest rates or unemployment levels begin to increase significantly.

The current environment is also accentuating the economic divide between those who can afford to purchase a home and those who cannot. At CMHC, our work to improve affordability is supported in part by the national housing strategy, a 10-year, $70-billion plan to give more Canadians a place to call home.

National housing strategy programs generally focus on those Canadians who are most vulnerable, such as seniors, people with disabilities, women and children fleeing violence, and people from indigenous and other racialized groups.

They also focus on addressing the biggest challenge to affordability, which is the lack of housing supply. Core NHS programs support projects that build new rental homes and renovate existing ones.

Federal investments in affordable housing have been growing year by year, including in budget 2020, which proposes to invest $2.5 billion in new funding for housing. The budget also proposes to reallocate $1.3 billion in existing funding to help build, repair and support 35,000 existing housing units sooner than planned. All of this new and accelerated funding will be delivered by CMHC.

Of particular note, the government is expanding its investment in the highly successful rapid housing initiative, or RHI. As the committee may know, the RHI was introduced last fall with federal funding of $1 billion to quickly create affordable housing for vulnerable people who have been most affected by the pandemic.

At the same time, the goal was also to stimulate the economy, creating good jobs when they're needed most.

The initiative provided funding to cover the construction of modular housing, including land acquisition. It also supported projects to convert existing buildings to affordable housing. Cities, provinces, non-profit organizations, indigenous organizations and government bodies were eligible to apply for the RHI funding. Most importantly, all housing had to be created within a year of signing the funding agreement.

The results for RHI exceeded all expectations. The original goal of the program was to create 3,000 units of permanent affordable housing. By working with partners and communities across the country, we were able to sign agreements that will create some 4,700 units. We also received many excellent proposals that far exceeded the initial budget.

As a result of the success of this approach and the high level of interest and capacity to do more, the government included an additional $1.5 billion for the RHI in budget 2021. This new investment should create another 4,500 units of housing. I'm also pleased to note that 25% of this new funding has been allocated to projects for women, who sadly have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. Further details about the RHI will be announced shortly.

With the RHI, other budget measures and ongoing programs, it's going to be a very busy year for CMHC. Nevertheless, I have every confidence in the ability of our 2,200 employees across the country to deliver on the government's expectations with respect to the national housing strategy.

CMHC will also continue to deliver its commercial programs. This will enable us to support our mandate to support financial stability. Through our mortgage funding programs, we make low-cost funding available to financial institutions to support their lending activities. Our mortgage insurance products, on the other hand, have enabled qualified homebuyers and developers to access financing at very competitive interest rates.

Last year, our mortgage insurance products helped more than 94,000 households purchase homes across Canada, and supported the construction of more than 174,000 new homes in multi-unit projects. We will continue to monitor the state of the housing markets across the country to identify signs of potential vulnerabilities. We are also partnering with other stakeholders on research and data collection and analysis to explore innovative solutions to the complex challenges facing Canada's housing system.

CMHC has also begun to implement a company-wide strategy to become a climate change leader. We are accelerating our efforts to meet our anti-racism and equity commitments. This is not only integral to our 2030 aspiration, but is of great importance to me personally, as a person of Asian heritage.

As for my new role, I'm taking time to meet with our board of directors, management team, employees, affordable housing providers, private developers, the non-profit sector, industry associations, bank CEOs, government partners and indigenous organizations, to list just a few. I have been seeking their insights on their vision for CMHC and the role we should play in the housing system going forward. I'm calling this my “listening tour”. It's been a very productive time so far, and I've listened to many ideas people have regarding the future of CMHC.

My own thinking is that there will never be sufficient funding at the federal level to reach our aspiration for housing affordability for everybody in Canada, whether they choose to rent or own. While the national housing strategy provides a very significant investment, a bigger and broader effort is needed. Housing is very complex and is not solely a federal responsibility. In fact, most housing in Canada is provided by the private sector. Having said that, there is a huge opportunity for CMHC to foster greater collaboration between partners to address affordability challenges. CMHC can use its influence and expertise to identify, highlight and address the barriers to housing affordability.

On my listening tour, many people have emphasized that the value CMHC brings to housing is a combination of its policy and market expertise, its ability to deliver national housing programs, and its knowledge of the housing markets through its mortgage insurance, mortgage funding and market analysis programs. I believe these strengths and our unique mix of publicly funded and commercial programs position us to harness the power of the private and non-profit sectors to achieve the results we seek—results that we believe will ultimately benefit all Canadians.

Chair, I would like to thank you again for the opportunity to meet with the committee today. I'd be very happy to take any questions at this time.