Human Resources Committee on May 27th, 2021

[Romy Bowers]

As a general comment, I would like to just make the point that the demand for the RHI funding exceeded the amount of funding that was available.

We received almost in excess of 3.5 billion dollars' worth of applications for the $500 million that was available. It is true that, unfortunately, we had to put many very worthy applications on hold. I think many of the constituents, perhaps, who were speaking to MP Trudel were many of the applicants that we were, unfortunately, not able to fund.

The good news is that in the new budget we have $1.5 billion in additional funding available, and we're in the process of determining how those funds will be allocated. We haven't finished our work on that, but we will be very pleased, in the coming weeks, to share our approach and methodology for how we can advance the additional funding we have received.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's interesting. Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

On that point, when the program was launched in October, people were given until December 31 to submit projects. Then the organizations working on the ground were told that they would receive an answer on January 31. Some organizations in my riding, in Montérégie, had made offers to purchase land that ended on March 31. As of March 31, they still had not received a response.

I know that you received many projects, but how could you launch a program so quickly without being able to provide answers to the organizations? We are talking about those who work with homeless people and women who are victims of domestic violence, for example. That's very important. Because of processing delays, some projects have not been able to see the light of day. It's a little difficult to understand.

Will this be corrected for the second component, which will be $1.5 billion?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Give a very brief answer, Ms. Bowers.

[Romy Bowers]

Yes. We like to think of ourselves as a learning organization, so we have taken all these comments into account, and we will try our best to make improvements in the second round to address these issues going forward.

Thank you for the comments.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

We will now go over to the NDP, to Ms. Gazan, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. You're doing a great job today.

Congratulations, Madam Bowers, on your new post.

I just want to build on my colleague MP Dong's comments with regard to the rental construction financing initiative and how it benefited, for the most part, the for-profit sector to the point, in fact, where 90% of the agreements were for the for-profit sector. I will be following up with the non-profit sector in my riding to get recommendations to you as soon as possible from many who felt really left out of the program.

That particular program was also criticized with regard to the whole definition of affordability. For example, in Ottawa, $2,750 would meet this definition of “affordable”. The report highlights projects that were considered affordable but were well above average market rent. This is certainly an issue in the city of Winnipeg and in my riding.

When the government says it has helped over one million Canadians find affordable housing, does this include units that meet the RCFI's definition of affordable, which I would argue is not affordable for many?

[Romy Bowers]

I would like to thank MP Gazan for her kind words of congratulation.

With respect to the RCFI program specifically, I always like to think of the national housing strategy as a very broad tent. The housing continuum is very broad, and although most of the programs are focused on more deeply affordable housing, we want to include programs that support the rental sector.

For many years, there has not been growth in purpose-built rentals in Canada, and the RCFI program was developed specifically to provide new rental housing for middle-class Canadians versus people at lower income levels.

I know that when you're actually looking at the rents that are being charged for RCFI projects, it's important to compare the rents not to the market in general but to the rents for new buildings that are being constructed.

We are pleased with the RCFI program because it generates new units in rental, which is very much needed, and we are able to drive greater affordability than—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Unfortunately, with all due respect, it's really left a lot of people in my riding behind; it's the third-poorest riding in the country.

Building on that, you spoke about historically marginalized groups. Certainly that was highlighted in the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. In fact, a report by the Native Women's Association of Canada stated that first nations women living off reserve experience “gendered and racialized discrimination by potential property owners”, which affects their ability to find adequate housing. In talking about people who fall outside of the definition of “middle class”, I'm still trying to figure out what that is, with all due respect.

With this in mind, my question is this. How is the CMHC responding to the calls to justice of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, for example, calls for the establishment of long-term, sustainable funding of indigenous-led, low-barrier shelters; safe spaces; transition homes; second-stage housing and services for indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people?

[Romy Bowers]

At CMHC, we have a group that is responsible for delivering housing programs to indigenous communities and Canadians who live in the north. There are probably about 70 people in that group, and their sole objective is to make sure all the programs under the national housing strategy are available to indigenous Canadians.

We work very hard every day with organizations that serve indigenous Canadians, to ensure that the federal housing programs that exist are made available to them.

I was very pleased to see, in the recent budget, the commitment, for example, that 25% of the new RHI funding that's available will be dedicated to women and children fleeing violence.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just to build on that, because I have a limited amount of time, I note that in Winnipeg we have the highest number of indigenous people and indigenous families in core housing need in the country. I would say that amount needs to be increased substantially to really lift up this basic human right.

Going back to your CMHC biography, you stated that you believe that “CMHC can be a catalyst for solving housing affordability challenges and a leader in building a housing system that is equitable and free of systemic racism.”

We know there's a lot of discussion about systemic racism. In order to get out of systemic racism, it's important to identify and know how structures and current systems perpetuate the ongoing colonization and racism in order to change—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Madam Gazan, perhaps you would ask a question. Your time is up, and we will have a brief answer, please.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sure.

—these systems. Can you speak to how the CMHC has participated and continues to participate in acts of systemic racism?

[Romy Bowers]

One of the privileges I've had in working at CMHC is that I've had the opportunity to serve many indigenous communities. I recognize that in delivering federal government programs, there's systemic racism built into some of the assumptions we have in how we set our criteria and develop programs. This is something we've taken to heart at CMHC. We believe that reconciliation is at the heart of what we do, and we recognize that sometimes unconscious biases and how we operate as a federal Crown corporation can be acts of systemic racism.

We have a mandatory training program at CMHC to enable all employees to learn about indigenous culture and history, to ensure that when we deliver and design programs, we take into consideration—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers. Perhaps you can consider that in our next round.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you for letting me indulge, Ms. Dancho.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

All right.

We're going to go back to the Conservatives for the second round.

We go over to you, Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Bowers, do you believe in the last year that the 2030 goal of CMHC is closer to being achieved or further away from being achieved?

[Romy Bowers]

As I stated, I think the pandemic has created a situation where there is a greater divide between the haves and the have-nots.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Unfortunately, because of the pandemic, the extra spending and low interest rates, the country has become less affordable.

[Romy Bowers]

However, at the same time, I think there is a public mood where we actually see these inequalities. I think there is huge public support for making the necessary investments to make sure that the gap between the haves and the have-nots is closed.

I'm very optimistic that post-pandemic, there is a great opportunity to make investments—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

Many Canadians cannot afford the 20% down payment required for an uninsured mortgage and are required to pay for mortgage insurance through CMHC. Recently, CMHC provided a $3.5-billion dividend payment to the Government of Canada.

Why is CMHC paying into the federal government general revenue fund instead of reducing insurance rates or offering rebates to lower-income Canadians who are just getting into the housing market in this crazy time?

[Romy Bowers]

I'd like to point out that the mortgage insurance system that exists in Canada is a legislative requirement. CMHC and two other private companies provide mortgage insurance. As you know, it's a legislative requirement for people who don't have a 20% deposit on their houses to purchase the mortgage insurance and—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

Mayor Hurley, the chair of the Metro Vancouver housing committee, shared with me yesterday that his city has nine shovel-ready housing sites—six for the national housing co-investment fund, and three for the rapid housing initiative—none of which received funding for construction.

Why has CMHC ignored Burnaby? It's one of the most expensive places to live in Canada.

[Romy Bowers]

That's fair enough. With respect to Burnaby, as I mentioned, for the three RHI projects, we just received the $1.5 billion in housing. A number of projects are on hold—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm going to give my plug for the mayor of Burnaby today, that they need more from CMHC in that community. I was shocked that they did not having anything yet except for funding under the rental construction financing initiative. Burnaby needs support.

On Burnaby, the mayor told me his staff had to fill out 250 pages of paperwork to receive seed funding of $50,000 per project for three projects. That's 750 pages for $150,000. You mentioned earlier that the application processing time has been reduced.

Has there been any action on reducing the administrative burden of applying for funds under the co-investment fund?