Human Resources Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you so much.

My riding is very rural with a large population base in the southern part. In the community of Boston Bar, one thing that came to mind during the pandemic was the lack of transportation. To get groceries, people have to go down the mountain passes to get to the community of Hope, which is outside of my riding, and they lost their community shuttle bus. Most of the people up there can't afford a vehicle. There's not a lot of money in that area.

What has United Way found for seniors groups and seniors living in isolation in rural Canada during the pandemic? Do you have any thoughts on that point?

[Debra Shime]

I would say that there are a couple of things.

I think my colleague here talked about interconnectivity, to have access online [Technical difficulty—Editor] and to get supports for mental health or to speak to your doctor or what have you. The transportation issue was huge.

We also saw that in a lot of the rural communities there were additional costs for food, whether it was for delivering the food or that the actual cost of the food was higher, especially in more remote areas. The dollar has to stretch that much further for those seniors who are living in those remote and rural areas, but the lack of transportation is a significant issue. Also, you're farther away from your neighbours in rural and remote areas.

I live in urban downtown and there are lots of supports locally. I can knock on my neighbour's door. In a rural and remote area, that's harder to do, so those natural communities of caring are harder to organize and manage in a rural or remote area.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

As it relates to this impact of COVID-19 on seniors, you mentioned the cost of food going up in rural areas. Has the increase in the cost of food through inflation had a negative impact on seniors?

[Debra Shime]

I can't speak specifically to that. Again, I'm happy to find information if that would be useful for you, but I think our experience in working and funding in the rural and remote areas was that not only was food more expensive, but there was also a supply-demand issue, right?

For example, we had a lot of trouble getting—this is not to the food issue—technology to folks, because there were no iPads available. Everybody was saying, yes, they'll get seniors iPads and connect them, but it was really hard to get those, to purchase those in bulk, for some communities. I would say that generally, the cost of food went up and lower-income families struggled in rural and remote areas to be able to afford what they might previously have been able to pay for.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes, I found that in the community of Lillooet, for example. There's only one place where you can purchase groceries.

I heard from a number of my senior constituents that they can't afford to buy cauliflower anymore because of the inflation in the cost of groceries in those communities. For me, if I have to pay five or six dollars for a head of cauliflower, it's not that big a deal, but when you're a senior living on a fixed income, those price increases, which I think were much more heightened for essential food items like vegetables, are a real big deal when you're planning on only paying two dollars, for example, when you're living on a fixed income.

[Debra Shime]

We know that low-income communities often struggle to afford healthy food. There may be food available, but it's not always the healthy fresh fruit and vegetables that you alluded to in your comment. I think that's an important factor as well.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes.

Thank you so much for appearing today, Madam Goodman. I wish I had more time. I had a few questions for you as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We might get back to you, Mr. Vis, for another turn.

Mr. Long, you have six minutes, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon to my colleagues.

Thank you very much to our presenters. Those were very, very good presentations.

Ms. Shime, I want to start by thanking you and United Way for the outstanding work and the service you deliver right across the country. Here in Saint John—Rothesay, the executive director is Alexya Heelis, who does a fantastic job. She's been in her role now for a little over a year.

I want to talk first and foremost about the emergency community support fund, the $350 million that our government announced to support community organizations. An amount of $9 million went to United Way Centraide Canada for seniors. In my riding I think there were 22 applications, and 13 organizations received funding. One of them was Meals on Wheels in Saint John, which got a $12,000 grant. Meals on Wheels obviously provides hundreds of free meals for seniors who need that support, especially during the pandemic.

That's a great example of the kind of service needed from community organizations who understand what seniors need. To continue the positive contribution to our society, how do we better leverage the work of such long-standing partners as United Way?

[Debra Shime]

Thank you for that question. I really appreciate the feedback as well. For a relatively new ED in your local community to deliver in this year was quite extraordinary.

I would say that we're really pleased to see that there's attention being paid to the charitable and non-profit sector in the budget for 2021. We welcome the announcement of the community services recovery fund, which is now focusing on modernizing and adapting and resilience in the community going forward. For that kind of resource to be successful and for us to work in partnership with government and others in the delivery of that, we want to make sure that the supports for longer-term change management for organizations to adapt are reasonable; that we have the supports for system-wide thinking around IT, fundraising and HR capacity; and that there is a role for national organizations to play along with intermediaries [Technical difficulty—Editor] CFC and CRC.

We generally fund to the general operating costs, as the United Way, not project funding. More support for general operating costs from the federal government would certainly help ensure that organizations serving seniors and other vulnerable populations could continue to do their good work locally in the community and be really responsive to what's happening as we build back and come out of this third wave. We're really focused on that system-change thinking of how we as a sector can transform with the learnings we have gathered through the last year and a half.

I hope I answered your question.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

You did, and I thank you for that.

In addition to the $9 million we funded through United Way Centraide Canada, we also allocated an additional $20 million in funding for new horizons for seniors programs. Obviously, we all know what new horizons does and the impact in all of our ridings. It helps organizations mobilize to help seniors through more community-based programs.

Do you think this [Technical difficulty—Editor] investment and flexibility provided will help community organizations have the means to carry out projects?

[Debra Shime]

I can't speak specifically to the parameters of the $20 million that you're referring to, but I can say that I think the funds that the federal, provincial, regional and municipal governments contributed to ensure that services were continued and could be expanded and shifted through the pandemic were essential to all our collective responses across the country. That ongoing and sustained investment is really important as we move forward.

As I said before, being a long-term funder in the community, we do really appreciate the flexibility for organizations to spend on the solutions and the programs that they feel are best suited for their communities, with as much flexibility as we can provide to organizations to use funds. The longer-term multi-year funding is always helpful to continue to build out those programs across the community over time.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you for that.

I read an article today. It was in the Delta Optimist. It is obviously B.C. based. The headline is, “United Way Healthy Aging connecting seniors through new digital project”.

I will just quote some of the stats here:

When the pandemic forced everyone into social isolation, many turned to technology to stay connected. This is true for seniors as much as for anyone. Research shows that device ownership and usage among older adults has grown markedly and 65 per cent of Canadians over 65 now own a smartphone and 83 per cent of them use it daily.

Can you give us your comments on what we could do to help enhance that, to help keep seniors connected, especially with what we have seen over the last year?

[Debra Shime]

We tend to clump seniors all together, and as I think I heard some of the previous folks on the panel speak to, there are different stages of aging, especially now. My father is 86, and he is using an iPad to do his hearings. He's a lawyer, and he's on his phone every day. I think we tend to generalize.

There is an issue of ensuring connectivity and making sure there is connectivity available across the county, that it's affordable and accessible to all. That's a big piece of what I think the federal government can support.

I also think there's training and education at the local level for seniors who may not have the facility to work with digital technology.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I will just jump in.

Is the United Way doing this in other areas across the country or is this a pure pilot project?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Can you respond very quickly, please? We are out of time.

[Debra Shime]

Yes.

What you're speaking to is a very specific project, but across the country, I would say United Ways have been deeply involved in ensuring that seniors and other vulnerable populations have access to technology, have the connectivity, have the training and support, and equally important, that the community agencies that are providing the services have the infrastructure to support them and that they themselves are equipped. We often forget that those organizations need that infrastructure and that ongoing support, as well, so they can reach those seniors. It's not just about the seniors having it.

Those are all important pieces of the puzzle to ensure that we can continue to reach vulnerable seniors who are living at home or in congregate care.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Ms. Chabot, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses. Engaged individuals have provided us with good testimony with a lot of depth. That really helps us in our work.

My question is for the Réseau FADOQ representatives, Ms. Tassé‑Goodman or Mr. Prud'homme.

As everyone knows, you have been putting in a lot of effort, especially in the public arena. You also participated in a meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance, following the recent federal budget announcement concerning the old age security pension increase, which will be available to people aged 75 and over starting in 2022. Like you, we feel that this will create two classes of seniors. I have even said that it would be a first, as the old age security pension applies once people turn 65.

I would like you to explain the impact of this measure, which will create two groups of seniors.

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

I will first answer and will then yield the floor to Mr. Prud'homme, so he can complete my answer.

Thank you for the question.

I would begin by saying that social inclusion is paramount for healthy aging. For example, the growing price of gas is quite real for everyone, and it is even more difficult for people who are receiving the guaranteed income supplement and the old age security pension. Increasing the old age security pension by 10% starting at age 75 creates inequality among seniors. A number of seniors have been saying this to us.

Rent also increases every year, and that affects people aged 65 and over, as it does those aged 75 and over. The grocery bill has also increased a lot. I was told that a dozen eggs no longer cost the same as they did one or two years ago. The price of fruits and vegetables has increased dramatically. The grocery bill is a heavy burden for people aged 65 and over, as it is for those aged 75 and over.

In many cases, there are more widowed women than widowed men among those aged 65 and over. Those women often become caretakers for their aging parents. Therefore, that means those women are deprived of income because they dedicate their time to taking care of their aging parents' health.

In many other cases, as well, men and women—but especially women—stayed at home to raise their children and take care of their education. They have not participated in the labour market, which means they have very low or no pension funds.

Those people start receiving the old age security pension and the guaranteed income supplement at 65 years of age, and they live with very little money—$18,500 a year. That's very little money to live on. That is why Réseau FADOQ is calling for the 10% increase to be provided to all seniors aged 65 and over, unconditionally.

Mr. Prud'homme, do you want to add anything?

[Danis Prud'homme, Director General, Provincial Secretariat, Réseau FADOQ]

I would add that this creates dichotomy.

The government said it wanted to help the neediest people, as expenses were higher for those aged 75 and over. However, the wrong approach was used. The reason is simple: when old age security is increased, a claimant can receive that higher pension until their annual income reaches $77,000. So the wrong approach was used.

If the government really wanted to help those who need money and were in need, it should have increased the guaranteed income supplement.

That is why we are saying that a general increase must be provided, and not only for those aged 75 and over. Otherwise, two classes of seniors will really be created.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

In the recent budget, the government presented a number of assistance measures to support the provinces. I think that is tantamount to interference in provincial matters, but I am not asking you to comment on this. I am thinking of considerations such as home care and the imposing of national health standards. However, that care comes under provincial jurisdiction.

Do you think those one-time payments, which we do not underestimate, are pushing aside money that could be permanent, a real health transfer covering 35% of the spending?

[Danis Prud'homme]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, one-time payments do not solve the issue; they just push it forward.

We must plan for the future. I will use the example of people aged 85 and over, as they generally need the most care. In 2011, they were 150,000. They will be 600,000 between 2031 and 2041. That number will then increase further to reach 700,000. If we cannot take care of people who need care today, how will one-time payments enable us to plan properly?

That is why we are asking for a 6% increase to get back to where we were before. We are mostly asking for indexing to be introduced and for an aging criterion to be set, so the provinces with the oldest populations can take better care of those people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Prud’homme and Ms. Chabot.

Next is Ms. Gazan, please, for six minutes.